From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBDw_vHwBBoEYxe3og@googlegroups.com Tue Jul 12 10:08:14 2011 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QggRQ-0003wz-5R; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 10:08:14 -0700 Received: by wyh13 with SMTP id 13sf10070110wyh.16 for ; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 10:08:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=V5TIChDoWJ7zfEKU1Ib20Cus5PbDkYBAcAsoIXCrxUQ=; b=O7XW0Pp4Ibfvb7W2t0Y6oTyzIBQPXjL8k5Oy4YiXJ0yTsY6iAMzCQKZszUShy1iHgu alD6LEc2aovzJ52EqpGQF4c/KdmPdbR+vqzTuas+2x7ZUuV1e+m2s5nOoU0gImXhXevF cQ4X2vc0LTqToY47HuKWmV5JUhXzFbUXcJUag= Received: by 10.216.141.137 with SMTP id g9mr1802051wej.17.1310490480886; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 10:08:00 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.106.37 with SMTP id v37ls215422wbo.1.gmail; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 10:07:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.236.216 with SMTP id w66mr297965weq.10.1310490479352; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 10:07:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.236.216 with SMTP id w66mr297964weq.10.1310490479332; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 10:07:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f169.google.com (mail-wy0-f169.google.com [74.125.82.169]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c25si6621666wbp.1.2011.07.12.10.07.59 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 12 Jul 2011 10:07:59 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.169 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.169; Received: by wyg36 with SMTP id 36so237240wyg.14 for ; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 10:07:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.217.6.197 with SMTP id y47mr4352632wes.55.1310490479137; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 10:07:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.71.77 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 10:07:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201107121903.02836.jezuch@interia.pl> References: <201107121903.02836.jezuch@interia.pl> From: Luke Bergen Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 13:07:39 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] UI affecting the previous word To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.169 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf302ad6987d944e04a7e25736 --20cf302ad6987d944e04a7e25736 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Krzysztof: uhhhh ".uiku"? haha, no you're right, that would be tough. Stela: I think you've got the heart of it there. I hadn't considered the idea that "now I have to go back and read it again with a happy voice" is itself malgli. It should be in my head that "oh, this word is followed by '.ui'. That (instead of a rising voice or some such) makes it a happy word". Haha, reminds me of one of the first criticisms I heard from a friend about lojban. I was explaining UI to him and he says "wait. So if you're murderously enraged at someone you would say 'blah blah blah blah blah blah' (spoken in a flat mono-tone voice)? That's just stupid". At the time I started backpedaling and saying "no no no, you should still intone your voice to show your feelings. UI is just there to make the text/dialog more obvious or something". But maybe "do xlarai .o'onaicai" and "DO XLARAI!!!!!!! (spoken)" should be heard the same way. Almost make the tone of voice be the thing that's optional/a hint. On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Krzysztof Sobolewski wr= ote: > Dnia niedziela, 10 lipca 2011 o 20:44:58 Luke Bergen napisa=C5=82(a): > > Does anyone know why the decision was made to make UI modify the > preceding > > word instead of the followimg word like so many other constructs do? > Seems > > like if UI did that then the problem could be solved by doing "doi alyn > xuku > > do klama" > > My theory is that it's almost necessary if you want to make it easy to > modify an entire bridi instead of a single word. So now you usually say > things like {.ui mi facki lo mi mapku}, stating up-front your happiness t= hat > affects the entire bridi. How would you do that if UI affected the follow= ing > word? > -- > Ecce Jezuch > "If she hands me my head on a plate, how will I take it > If I'm scared?" - D. Pinnick > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Znajdz samochod idealny dla siebie! > Szukaj >> http://linkint.pl/f29e2 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --20cf302ad6987d944e04a7e25736 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Krzysztof: uhhhh ".uiku"? =A0haha, no you're right, that woul= d be tough.

Stela: I think you've got the heart of i= t there. =A0I hadn't considered the idea that "now I have to go ba= ck and read it again with a happy voice" is itself malgli. =A0It shoul= d be in my head that "oh, this word is followed by '.ui'. =A0T= hat (instead of a rising voice or some such) makes it a happy word".

Haha, reminds me of one of the first=A0criticisms I hea= rd from a friend about lojban. =A0I was explaining UI to him and he says &q= uot;wait. =A0So if you're=A0murderously=A0enraged at someone you would = say 'blah blah blah <word for angry> blah blah blah' (spoken = in a flat mono-tone voice)? =A0That's just stupid". =A0At the time= I started backpedaling and saying "no no no, you should still intone = your voice to show your feelings. =A0UI is just there to make the text/dial= og more obvious or something". =A0But maybe "do xlarai .o'ona= icai" and "DO XLARAI!!!!!!! (spoken)" should be heard the sa= me way. =A0Almost make the tone of voice be the thing that's optional/a= hint.

On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Krzysztof S= obolewski <jezuch= @interia.pl> wrote:
Dnia niedziela, 10 lipca 2011 o 20:44:58 Luke Bergen napisa=B3(a):
> Does anyone know why the decision was made to make U= I modify the preceding
> word instead of the followimg word like so many other constructs do? = =A0Seems
> like if UI did that then the problem could be solved by doing "do= i alyn xuku
> do klama"

My theory is that it's almost necessary if you want to make it ea= sy to modify an entire bridi instead of a single word. So now you usually s= ay things like {.ui mi facki lo mi mapku}, stating up-front your happiness = that affects the entire bridi. How would you do that if UI affected the fol= lowing word?
--
Ecce Jezuch
"If she hands me my head on a plate, how will I take it
If I'm scared?" - D. Pinnick

----------------------------------------------------------------
Znajdz samochod idealny dla siebie!
Szukaj >> http:= //linkint.pl/f29e2

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