From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRCFovnwBBoECRN_6A@googlegroups.com Wed Jul 13 19:14:41 2011 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QhBRn-0004xk-Ud; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 19:14:41 -0700 Received: by qyk31 with SMTP id 31sf8049720qyk.16 for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 19:14:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-smtp:x-ymail-osg :x-yahoo-newman-property:references:in-reply-to :x-apple-yahoo-original-message-folder:mime-version:message-id :x-mailer:from:x-apple-yahoo-replied-msgid:subject:date:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=7T69j5qeNmBIdyV9JzhrTtV4CuyzvlPbkL/wAEFOfsE=; b=6ZPBIQS6z8uK0MgbYQWQtzESohqalsdLqixHvoyG3XuDit1aT8Rc+IRME+WZpkd1Zp Nr4W0/lm/phBVhzJ44WC3fiH2a6pVfIZ0o/ZN1yUtoq6RbuRKzM5sh9rq4af39qM+o4P R2yBGinxrp76jv85ANQpsLG8SWuQ0bquXmm5A= Received: by 10.224.64.196 with SMTP id f4mr246756qai.12.1310609669187; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 19:14:29 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.187.145 with SMTP id cw17ls422462qab.2.gmail; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 19:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.42.143 with SMTP id s15mr2284988qae.28.1310609668437; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 19:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.42.143 with SMTP id s15mr2284986qae.28.1310609668423; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 19:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp101-mob.biz.mail.ac4.yahoo.com (smtp101-mob.biz.mail.ac4.yahoo.com [76.13.13.222]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id z32si3860419qcd.1.2011.07.13.19.14.28; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 19:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 76.13.13.222 as permitted sender) client-ip=76.13.13.222; Received: (qmail 86795 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2011 02:14:28 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.68] (kali9putra@99.92.108.41 with xymcookie) by smtp101-mob.biz.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2011 19:14:25 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: xvGyF4GswBCIFKGaxf5wSjlg3RF108g- X-YMail-OSG: 7UhG0u0VM1nNjej1wfj938WLXFXwVGQjUt4awYeKTKRRzlG Sy.X03pJjBj9I9sUsB9GlwHDViMVf.WkpZxhF2LUIaWRfrD0ArvOLQ6mjY5i 3eiT3tIzZ18ySxfZnkdbxUgreQv5EeyXy7i0rha5GdQPj97z.v28Zbn7nlCG lNzGMyObybCKD1VKBlW8rL2NhVG6rjSrpyQvkbK1z214laQ_KEmVPWCUdCmW MC_w.jv8JSrPXKh78NFBkkUv3vbP3vLEz58LOu2Olrsx0032A0HYbNLj7e8W eaDw3rkaFCrDrGj4KcxxSTycwx3QbX.d9.QJnG4kG_TY9Wv7P1vQK5b.JzSM GkVG4hnghU080E3BnZ1Eu9MPJEBiUL4Qb.eQZXQ8zh0gNBqRkMEv8hZpiF9S 2wPwIsLdQrJQlRG44yQOXwRQoC0Y1ZEzq06AaHpAIEZOuqfrga7luZzKRj4c 7pnngyJQylw-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 References: <201107090028.31171.phma@phma.optus.nu> <4E1A7244.2080107@kli.org> <7C93C87E-FBFF-4C18-A7D2-525EBF6BB974@yahoo.com> <19C496C1-8E20-4FCE-A40C-2634CC26D4AC@yahoo.com> <55A3224A-D4C3-48D6-9114-692063F6D2B8@yahoo.com> <1310438893.88955.YahooMailRC@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1310579153.44690.YahooMailRC@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: X-Apple-Yahoo-Original-Message-Folder: AAlojbanery Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPad Mail 8G4) Message-Id: <7E28C065-4C52-4DE5-9487-6A780891EA26@yahoo.com> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8G4) From: "John E. Clifford" X-Apple-Yahoo-Replied-Msgid: 1_9306352_AHrHjkQAADNNTh4SvgWj/UZ1/y4 Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: xu dai Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 22:20:57 -0400 To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 76.13.13.222 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, aside from the fact that I have never heard anyone say that (to the b= est of my knowledge), what could it possibly mean? It looks like a factual= claim, but admittedly is not. So it looks like a certain style of psychob= abble from some time ago -- along with "I hear what you're saying" and the = like. Surely that has no place in a logical language any more than in a re= asonable culture. It might, I suppose, be an indirect way to ask a questio= n, but it seems foredoomed to fail in most cases, since the obvious respons= e is "No, I didn't", not an answer. I just don't see how anyone else's men= tal states has anything to do with my question and I don't see how my top l= evel 'xu', however gussied up, can not be a question. Sent from my iPad On Jul 13, 2011, at 17:48, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 2:45 PM, John E Clifford w= rote: >> What would be the parallel in asking a question? Apparently, >> having a sense that another person wants to ask a question so asking it = for >> them. It is my question. even if I don't care about the answer and some= one else >> does. just as it is my feeling, even if it reflects someone else's emoti= ons, I >> don't find the "just as" at all plausible and, even if it were, what cou= ld be >> the point of marking this -- except, perhaps to disassociate yourself fr= om the >> question, an occasionally useful ploy. >=20 > In English you obtain roughly the same effect by tagging your question > with "I hear you ask", which is usually not literal hearing. >=20 > mu'o mi'e xorxes >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. >=20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.