From lojban+bncCNf8pM-bDBDGpvvwBBoEw0oq7w@googlegroups.com Thu Jul 14 04:30:29 2011 Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QhK7d-0002id-5v; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 04:30:28 -0700 Received: by qwh5 with SMTP id 5sf152854qwh.16 for ; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 04:30:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=AfvefJA6mADLRNUZ7lwXUoWCZnJn4tcyFYdEL8AwdHg=; b=Fg9OiJoP9CskPouOsWGe7qC1i6Ipvd0imLgpy1ftIj/uDVfEpiwPrdgI8DOeOVB8qq KlE428V7X7o+Yo9AqxppWnleo1bQg+w1bizogAfYfAU+v3n7oNH/RhpkC25BP2VfVQXG A1RTsa4427xP3NAiIIf4dnsEqY53bcF1kN1Ss= Received: by 10.224.186.16 with SMTP id cq16mr328310qab.19.1310643014370; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 04:30:14 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.187.71 with SMTP id cv7ls502312qab.1.gmail; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 04:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.205.195 with SMTP id fr3mr2815362qab.24.1310643010480; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 04:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.205.195 with SMTP id fr3mr2815361qab.24.1310643010469; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 04:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qw0-f53.google.com (mail-qw0-f53.google.com [209.85.216.53]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ix17si141303qcb.3.2011.07.14.04.30.10 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 14 Jul 2011 04:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of paskios@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.53 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.53; Received: by mail-qw0-f53.google.com with SMTP id 7so82117qwb.26 for ; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 04:30:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.69.7 with SMTP id x7mr2064302qai.15.1310643010342; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 04:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.48.5 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 04:30:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 12:30:09 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] girzu gi'i gunma gi'i se gunma From: tijlan To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: paskios@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of paskios@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.53 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=paskios@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Somebody brought the following Alice sentence to my attention: no=92i la ciftoldi ku joi la alis ze=92a simxu le nu smaji catlu (older v= ersion) no'i la ciftoldi joi la .alis. ze'a simxu lo nu smaji catlu (newer versio= n) Why "joi", given that "ce" would be in more accordance with the dictionary definition of simxu1 (a set)? I'm personally of the opinion that the dictionary doesn't have to confine this x1 to one type or the other; but if it's just that we don't have to be as much strict about what makes for simxu1, why not "ju'e", which presumably is already generic? Another concern is about KOhA involving "joi". "mi'o", for example: http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/mi%27o My understanding: ci mi'o =3D ci lo me mi joi do =3D ci da poi me mi joi do My question: Does this "da" refer to lo gunma or lo se gunma? In other words, is each of the three referents of "ci da" a group or an individual? mi'e tijlan mu'o --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.