From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRDaoovxBBoEhty6EA@googlegroups.com Sun Jul 17 05:11:20 2011 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QiQBp-0003nE-E1; Sun, 17 Jul 2011 05:11:19 -0700 Received: by pvc22 with SMTP id 22sf3405624pvc.16 for ; Sun, 17 Jul 2011 05:11:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-smtp:x-ymail-osg :x-yahoo-newman-property:references:in-reply-to :x-apple-yahoo-original-message-folder:mime-version:message-id :x-mailer:from:x-apple-yahoo-replied-msgid:subject:date:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4d2icUz6volsnlyhdlh+qEr5EbjaLz+XtkBeP9+bvmM=; b=JznA4tCgniW17vNYby5XkK8uFe0T7u73OIXcVaFCfTkV9Z1SAQ2E67haYhM3DS2PTE 7VtXuwq985Mli7noL1PGWQuE9LrYSC/lKR5Uzy40XR0SQu0/BhqWVoxi/20P9hDU9cko wKJGMKjApsZTGIV8hgx5VMPFBjhlyTtrc1wC4= Received: by 10.68.34.4 with SMTP id v4mr468794pbi.79.1310904666920; Sun, 17 Jul 2011 05:11:06 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.39.97 with SMTP id o1ls2725391pbk.2.gmail; Sun, 17 Jul 2011 05:11:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.27.35 with SMTP id q3mr1047576pbg.95.1310904666135; Sun, 17 Jul 2011 05:11:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.27.35 with SMTP id q3mr1047575pbg.95.1310904666128; Sun, 17 Jul 2011 05:11:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp116-mob.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (smtp116-mob.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.136.185.207]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id v9si7437331pbc.2.2011.07.17.05.11.06; Sun, 17 Jul 2011 05:11:06 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 98.136.185.207 as permitted sender) client-ip=98.136.185.207; Received: (qmail 26651 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2011 12:11:05 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.68] (kali9putra@99.92.108.41 with xymcookie) by smtp116-mob.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jul 2011 05:11:04 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: xvGyF4GswBCIFKGaxf5wSjlg3RF108g- X-YMail-OSG: vZziL3IVM1kiqRj1mmRKt_M9gZYP8y4EpGJg6K_1zc0BaRJ uXYJt8rMJXHs5nGkvjicSQM29QVQJfHseh_yx1MTzlurHwFb74rtdMT78XzT NyEaSxm1d9HufudgkmfM9L0t0emitsj1mz7N_IBZdG3TogvgeZVnAvYSz2nt 9Y4fKabrk43cXMvgVqyzkmEuRy1_ft3chELqXkBWJvv7uIJZj5y5kQ1g5PSA dBo2XEESe.6Tmd3u9CL80sXb_p9h4PBK6soYg5rCMNqK3L00iaU7AyxzgK6Q L5cb_rv1jGf3PAEyojm4Q9R0xBrIY72NQyumEDYak1AX1VK7a3fQdkh00Hli 39hfJB0o5T3BoidTEuwzIo.Rk9MiOy2pf8GD8XhzlW5mroPrb15kQpIqOiu_ JsiKwKTAIWYEjaJ0seN1AucHOylYqN4ETDyHQomixjPFr9HlQhWCx8zbKpPt L6w08Fp_OKA-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 References: <1310830739.1741.YahooMailRC@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: X-Apple-Yahoo-Original-Message-Folder: AAlojbanery Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPad Mail 8G4) Message-Id: <76D27AC9-496A-4A95-A59C-77B868D9DA66@yahoo.com> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8G4) From: "John E. Clifford" X-Apple-Yahoo-Replied-Msgid: 1_4783_AHzHjkQAAAYoTiK16gIkERVqtXA Subject: Re: [lojban] girzu gi'i gunma gi'i se gunma Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2011 08:17:47 -0400 To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 98.136.185.207 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable PA lo - lo - loi How would you define a Cantorian set in Lojban? (Actually, that is unfair, = since the axioms of ordinay set theory are incompletable and the Lesniewski= an axioms are, I think, complete.) Giving the axioms would be the nearest = thing to a definition, but I don't see doing that in Lojban, even with MEX = in working order. Sent from my iPad On Jul 17, 2011, at 6:13, tijlan wrote: > On 16 July 2011 16:38, John E Clifford wrote: >> The descriptor involved is useful, though, rounding out the set of distr= ibutive--neutral--collective >=20 > lo--lo--loi ? >=20 >=20 >> So, as in English, I talk about >> bunches, or groups or crowds, etc. On the one side, this is just a figu= re of >> speech to be ignored. On the other, it can be taken as interposing anot= her >> entity between the things and our reference to them. That this entity i= s a >> Lesniewskian set and that the logic of such sets is exactly that of thin= gs >> directly (except for the intervening set-like notation) doesn't prevent = some >> people from thinking that that these intervening entities are sets and t= hus >> Cantorian and so reintroducing all the problems (another reason never to= use the >> word set outside mathematics), >=20 > How would you define a Lesniewskian set in Lojban? >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. >=20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.