From lojban+bncCK30vq5WEMquk_EEGgT61E4Z@googlegroups.com Mon Jul 18 18:06:49 2011 Received: from mail-pz0-f56.google.com ([209.85.210.56]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QiyiP-00061e-Jo; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 18:05:54 -0700 Received: by pzk33 with SMTP id 33sf7333059pzk.1 for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 18:01:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition :content-transfer-encoding; bh=weU/kZK/iDDD+CvIDkCcpyfESET4HJiaTgrmymo9wEk=; b=wt2eY+Xjm7SoLnRfEVa5mesCvm22+P4IWKaFjSJ8hUTkIQ9k3s25DHpNLyJ0AiAL9D 7AME8SHwD4LK65Vf83GhaeEjRoR0a+CHVJB0mNc7M1QRjapLTBgAcxI2qnT0S7V45k1+ AXOLM104BQXQgAIIgbkGc9/AkFDEFeEafYN3Y= Received: by 10.142.4.4 with SMTP id 4mr1661267wfd.53.1311037258574; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 18:00:58 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.39.97 with SMTP id o1ls4164924pbk.2.gmail; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 18:00:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.15.169 with SMTP id y9mr726411pbc.59.1311037257867; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 18:00:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.15.169 with SMTP id y9mr726410pbc.59.1311037257854; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 18:00:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org (digitalkingdom.org [173.13.139.234]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f8si11060638pbc.0.2011.07.18.18.00.56 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 18 Jul 2011 18:00:56 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.234 as permitted sender) client-ip=173.13.139.234; Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qiye5-0005vv-2x for lojban@googlegroups.com; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 17:59:40 -0700 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 17:58:45 -0700 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Yet another PEG question ... Message-ID: <20110719005844.GH18524@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20110717171041.GA46784@alice.local> <20110717171248.GB46784@alice.local> <20110718165622.GE18524@digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.234 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That's an attempt to make the RPN bits of Lojban, which are left-associative, work in PEG, which doesn't allow that sort of thing. Feel free to try to do better, but honestly I'd rather just drop that part of the language entirely. I no longer remeber what the () was for specifically, but that's how one allows something to be empty in some nested cases. -Robin On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 08:38:58PM -0400, Frank wrote: > ki'e .i What of "rp-expression-tail <- rp-expression operator > rp-expression-tail / ()"? The '()' seems to be superfluous, yes? >=20 > On 18 July 2011 12:56, Robin Lee Powell wro= te: > > That's ZOI stuff; that's actual variables for Java code; see > > rats/lojban.java > > > > ZOI cannot be handled by straight PEG or CFG; it requires code hooks > > or a true CSG as far as we can tell. > > > > -Robin > > > > On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 10:02:45AM -0400, Frank wrote: > >> I also see "innerWordSEP2" and "innerWordSEP3" in the grammar file > >> and not in the morphology one but do not seem to be able to find a > >> definition. What are these terms, if Anyone remembers? (I know how > >> easy it can be to code something and then forget why One did > >> that.) > >> > >> mi'e xuinkrbin. > >> > >> On 17 July 2011 13:12, .alyn.post. wr= ote: > >> > On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 11:10:41AM -0600, .alyn.post. wrote: > >> >> On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 01:41:26PM -0300, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: > >> >> > On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Frank wrote: > >> >> > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0NORATS CMAVO-word-pre <- " CMAVO=3D( " > >> >> > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0NORATS CMAVO <- CMAVO-word-pre inner-word close-= paren > >> >> > > /If/, and this is a big 'if', I understand correctly, such line= s mean > >> >> > > a parser attempting to find a cmavo in a portion of lojban text= should > >> >> > > look for (literal) "CMAVO=3D(" followed by some other text foll= owed by a > >> >> > > literal ")", which would suggest some form of pre-interpretatio= n of > >> >> > > said lojban text before parsing. But how could such be? Would n= ot the > >> >> > > purpose of the parser be to perform such interpretation? > >> >> > > >> >> > In his implementation of the PEG, Robin divided the grammar into = two > >> >> > stages, morphology and syntax. The output of the morphology stage > >> >> > produced something containing such things as "CMAVO=3D( da )" and= then > >> >> > the syntax part worked with that output. There's no need to do th= is > >> >> > other than resolving some practical concern of that implementatio= n. > >> >> > The official PEG (when we have it) should not have such things. > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> jbgenturfa'i does not include these productions, and instead "more > >> >> directly" interfaces with the morphology by treating the morphology > >> >> and grammar as a single PEG grammar. =A0The behavior above was so > >> >> Robin and xorxes could work and debug together; and perhaps for > >> >> other reasons. =A0Exactly as xorxes said, they aren't needed and ar= e > >> >> an artifact of camxes. > >> >> > >> >> Will you talk a little about what you're doing? =A0So far your > >> >> questions are exactly the ones I asked, when I started using camxes= , > >> >> and the answers I got then are now included in jbogenturfa'i. > >> >> > >> > > >> > I'm sorry, I was reading my e-mail in reverse order, and I see you > >> > have answered this question. > >> > > >> > -Alan > >> > -- > >> > .i ma'a lo bradi cu penmi gi'e du > >> > > >> > -- > >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google G= roups "lojban" group. > >> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@goo= glegroups.com. > >> > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group= /lojban?hl=3Den. > >> > > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups "lojban" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googl= egroups.com. > >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/l= ojban?hl=3Den. > >> > > > > -- > > http://singinst.org/ : =A0Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. > > Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot > > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" > > is "na nei". =A0 My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps "lojban" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@google= groups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lo= jban?hl=3Den. > > > > >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. >=20 --=20 http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.