From lojban+bncCIycn8S8DhD4h5vxBBoEGzAV9A@googlegroups.com Wed Jul 20 05:09:26 2011 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QjVWh-0001jW-5K; Wed, 20 Jul 2011 05:08:30 -0700 Received: by pvc22 with SMTP id 22sf191045pvc.16 for ; Wed, 20 Jul 2011 05:03:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=1q/iqqXaw0KbNc/vzNy079pdyRnOUBbcevrmGPD4cL4=; b=2jSYFNeLLW2ybhPtifS0UPg7LDaNXLddmby2EqvRKjvI72DTxotv5QXFNXJIGs3ngR X1BD444r33+/pOiOCpyJFHuvJtNwbhFlSAY8FrKT5ciJgGmqqqJ5tgSwBccXScKB970U GXtLD3yEHvrSp/8AB2bO0DU6q3IVgt/iMxT+k= Received: by 10.68.24.199 with SMTP id w7mr1043736pbf.49.1311163384300; Wed, 20 Jul 2011 05:03:04 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.59.41 with SMTP id w9ls368906pbq.1.gmail; Wed, 20 Jul 2011 05:03:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.11.73 with SMTP id o9mr2027019pbb.87.1311163383616; Wed, 20 Jul 2011 05:03:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.11.73 with SMTP id o9mr2027018pbb.87.1311163383597; Wed, 20 Jul 2011 05:03:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pz0-f41.google.com (mail-pz0-f41.google.com [209.85.210.41]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a1si397420pbs.1.2011.07.20.05.03.03 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Jul 2011 05:03:03 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.41 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.41; Received: by mail-pz0-f41.google.com with SMTP id 4so364825pzk.28 for ; Wed, 20 Jul 2011 05:03:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.25.8 with SMTP id y8mr9931064pbf.527.1311163383312; Wed, 20 Jul 2011 05:03:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.56.196 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jul 2011 05:03:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <3bc67486-0f43-4591-928a-35d471b7237e@d7g2000vbv.googlegroups.com> References: <3bc67486-0f43-4591-928a-35d471b7237e@d7g2000vbv.googlegroups.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 08:03:03 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Introducing my Lojban blog! From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.41 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec5215799b4739104a87f03d2 --bcaec5215799b4739104a87f03d2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 coi Daniel. If I can just be permitted to nitpick some of your lojban (since I assume practice is part of the reason you want to start a blog): On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 11:35 PM, Daniel Golani (Negative Clock) < dgolani@gmail.com> wrote: > coi rodo .i mi puzi cmibi'o ui ti girzu Not grammatical. You want "lo vi girzu". "ti" is a prosumti (essentially, like a pronoun). It occupies the whole sumti slot - "this thing right here". "girzu" on the other hand, is a selbri. It can't go into a sumti slot, and you've ended up with a sentence with two main bridi, a no-no. "vi" is a space tense that means "very close by (to...)" Without a sumti following it it means very close by the speaker. So "vi grizu" means "nearby list", and the you make the whole thing into a sumti with "lo". (in point of fact, one can argue the reality of the list being located physically in space near to you, but that's still the convention. "le girzu" might be less problematic form a epistemological point of view) > .i e'o ko tcidu le mi cnino snukarni je cusku ma noi rodo pensi ku'o mi Grammatical, but not what you want. What it says is "I suggest you read my new blog/sayer from source what?, which you all think about, and something to do with "me" relating to reading." 1) You want us to read and you want us to tell. "je" is not the right word here. That links the two selbri "cnino snukarni" and "cusku" (which then become a sumti with the "le"). You want "gi'e", the bridi-tail linker, making us the subject of both parts of the sentence. 2) "ma" asks a direct question. It expects an answer. Instead, use "makau" 3) pensi is not right here. You want our opinion, about it, not our musings, I assume. Therefore, use jinvi. Putting it together, changing it as little as possible: ".i e'o ko tcidu le mi cnino snukarni gi'e cusku makau noi rodo jinvi ku'o mi" (although really, the "rodo" is wrong, too, since it implies that we should tell you what each of us thinks. I have no idea what others think, only myself. Better to leave off the "ro", since you've already addressed us all in the beginning) You might find tools like http://genrei.lojban.org/ or http://lojban.org/jboski useful for checking your grammar, and for seeing if things are really attaching to the places you intended. --gejyspa -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --bcaec5215799b4739104a87f03d2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
coi Daniel.=A0 If I can just be permitted to nitpick = some of your lojban (since I assume practice is part of the reason you want= to start a blog):


=A0
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 11:35 PM, Daniel Golani (= Negative Clock) <= dgolani@gmail.com> wrote:
coi rodo .i mi puzi cmibi'o = ui ti girzu
=A0
=A0 Not grammatical.=A0=A0=A0 You want "lo vi girzu".=A0 &qu= ot;ti" is a prosumti (essentially, like a pronoun).=A0 It occupies the= whole sumti slot - "this thing right here". "girzu" on= the other hand, is a selbri.=A0 It can't go into a sumti slot, and you= 've ended up with a sentence with two main bridi, a no-no.=A0 "vi&= quot; is a=A0space tense that =A0means "very close by (to...)"=A0= Without a sumti following it it means very close by the speaker.=A0So &quo= t;vi grizu" means "nearby list", and the you make the whole = thing into a sumti with "lo". (in point of fact, one can argue th= e reality of the list being located physically in space near to you, but th= at's still the convention. "le girzu" might be less problemat= ic form a epistemological point of view)
=A0
.i e'o ko tcidu le mi cnino = snukarni je cusku ma noi rodo pensi ku'o mi
=A0 Grammatical, but not what you want.=A0 What it says is "I sug= gest you read my new blog/sayer from source what?, which you all think abou= t, and something to do with "me" relating to reading."

1) You want us to read and you want us to tell. "je" is = not the right word here.=A0 That links the two selbri "cnino snukarni&= quot; and "cusku" (which then become a sumti with the "le&qu= ot;). You want "gi'e", the bridi-tail linker, making us the s= ubject of both parts of the sentence.=A0
=A0
2) "ma" asks a direct question.=A0 It expects an answer.=A0 = Instead, use "makau"
=A0
3) pensi is not right here. You want our opinion, about it, not our mu= sings, I assume.=A0 Therefore, use jinvi.
=A0
=A0 Putting it together, changing it as little as possible: ".i e= 'o ko tcidu le mi cnino snukarni=A0gi'e cusku makau noi rodo=A0jinv= i ku'o mi"
=A0
=A0 (although really, the "rodo" is wrong, too, since it imp= lies that we should tell you what each of us thinks.=A0 I have no idea what= others think, only myself.=A0 Better to leave off the "ro", sinc= e you've already addressed us all in the beginning)
=A0
=A0 You might find tools like ht= tp://genrei.lojban.org/=A0or http:= //lojban.org/jboski useful for checking your grammar, and for seeing if= things are really attaching to the places you intended.
=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejy= spa
=A0

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