From lojban+bncCOib25n_BhCyvZvxBBoEkS9tgw@googlegroups.com Wed Jul 20 07:03:22 2011 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QjXJ4-0007B8-4U; Wed, 20 Jul 2011 07:02:26 -0700 Received: by wyh13 with SMTP id 13sf438265wyh.16 for ; Wed, 20 Jul 2011 06:57:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=mg6Lx4htTFj92XYypK14F0ZYMUONI7KKflmiyKCGpvo=; b=eCOoqT9Hin4KnO3EPCFYjuvSZ5R7hwIZ33pUVZ6ySGF383mYAHB6hg7bBZyzJf+Afj ttoArndvBVPuK8XGm7DTPoz66+TZdlI/hYkgww/RywRzZ0unKBhHORLOzv8KNy7U4ynN q8Su31ZjucD23BZ8A6bc2OQlyy/WKkpwjnODA= Received: by 10.216.141.137 with SMTP id g9mr245711wej.17.1311170226176; Wed, 20 Jul 2011 06:57:06 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.213.9.212 with SMTP id m20ls57382ebm.0.gmail; Wed, 20 Jul 2011 06:57:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.26.137 with SMTP id e9mr54044ebc.3.1311170224940; Wed, 20 Jul 2011 06:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.26.137 with SMTP id e9mr54043ebc.3.1311170224911; Wed, 20 Jul 2011 06:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f46.google.com (mail-fx0-f46.google.com [209.85.161.46]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h4si1730850fao.0.2011.07.20.06.57.04 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Jul 2011 06:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.46 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.46; Received: by mail-fx0-f46.google.com with SMTP id 19so1721990fxh.19 for ; Wed, 20 Jul 2011 06:57:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.74.67 with SMTP id t3mr59948bkj.192.1311170224408; Wed, 20 Jul 2011 06:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.70.196 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jul 2011 06:57:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1a31142c-73c8-45fd-ac25-fd6cd9e4caca@g2g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 09:57:04 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] How to translate special emphasis on a word ("terming") From: Alex Rozenshteyn To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.46 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rpglover64@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d643f67747cd04a8809b88 --0016e6d643f67747cd04a8809b88 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I once read {za'e} described as "scare quotes": e.g. The "human" standing before me nodded. {lo za'e remna poi sanli zvati lo crane be mi ti'ufru} Indicating an even stronger disconnect from being human than {le} would. Now that I think about it, that doesn't help... On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > I don't believe so. > > I understand {za'e} as marking the next word as being something that > may cause confusion because (for example) it's not in the dictionary. > I suppose it could be used to indicate that the following word is not > what you might expect. For instance, if I saw {lo ze'a gerku} I would > be confused and would certainly question if this "dog" that you were > talking about was actually a dog or something... oh who knows what > you're talking about at this point. > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 2:11 PM, Alex Rozenshteyn > wrote: > > Isn't that what exactly what {za'e} is for? > > > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Luke Bergen > wrote: > >> > >> hmmm, I'm not sure. I think it would depend on the context. > >> > >> I usually interpret {bi'unai} as something like "the whatever that we > >> were talking about" and sometimes that forces me to think back on all > >> the "whatevers" that we've talked about. > >> > >> So it wouldn't work if you wanted to compare "the Dog" against > >> "ordinary dogs" because {bi'unai} COULD be interpreted as talking > >> about "ordinary dogs". > >> > >> On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Escape Landsome > >> wrote: > >> > 2011/7/19 Luke Bergen : > >> >> you could use {bi'unai}. e.g. {lo bi'unai gerku} is a way of saying > >> >> something akin to "the dog (the one we we've been talking about)" > >> > > >> > Would this work even if that's a dog we are talking about, but maybe > >> > in another sections of the book, or even only *way* later ? > >> > > >> > -- > >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> > Groups "lojban" group. > >> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > >> > For more options, visit this group at > >> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > >> > > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >> "lojban" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > >> For more options, visit this group at > >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Alex R > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "lojban" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- Alex R -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016e6d643f67747cd04a8809b88 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I once read {za'e} described as "scare quotes": e.g.

T= he "human" standing before me nodded.
{lo za'e remna poi s= anli zvati lo crane be mi ti'ufru}

Indicating an even stronger d= isconnect from being human than {le} would.

Now that I think about it, that doesn't help...

On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com= > wrote:
I don't believe so.

I understand {za'e} as marking the next word as being something that may cause confusion because (for example) it's not in the dictionary. I suppose it could be used to indicate that the following word is not
what you might expect. =A0For instance, if I saw {lo ze'a gerku} I woul= d
be confused and would certainly question if this "dog" that you w= ere
talking about was actually a dog or something... oh who knows what
you're talking about at this point.

On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 2:11 PM, Alex Rozenshteyn <rpglover64@gmail.com> wrote:
> Isn't that what exactly what {za'e} is for?
>
> On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> hmmm, I'm not sure. =A0I think it would depend on the context.=
>>
>> I usually interpret {bi'unai} as something like "the what= ever that we
>> were talking about" and sometimes that forces me to think bac= k on all
>> the "whatevers" that we've talked about.
>>
>> So it wouldn't work if you wanted to compare "the Dog&quo= t; against
>> "ordinary dogs" because {bi'unai} COULD be interpret= ed as talking
>> about "ordinary dogs".
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Escape Landsome <escaaape@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > 2011/7/19 Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>:
>> >> you could use {bi'unai}. =A0e.g. {lo bi'unai gerk= u} is a way of saying
>> >> something akin to "the dog (the one we we've bee= n talking about)"
>> >
>> > Would this work even if that's a dog we are talking about= , but maybe
>> > in another sections of the book, or even only *way* later ? >> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the G= oogle
>> > Groups "lojban" group.
>> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> > lojb= an+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> > For more options, visit this group at
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google= Groups
>> "lojban" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> lojban+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> =A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Alex R
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups
> "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban+unsubs= cribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>

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--
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Alex R

--
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