From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRDB4afxBBoEnkH7mQ@googlegroups.com Fri Jul 22 14:51:13 2011 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QkNch-0001om-Mf; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 14:51:13 -0700 Received: by vws2 with SMTP id 2sf1273689vws.16 for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 14:51:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-newman-id:x-yahoo-newman-property :x-ymail-osg:x-yahoo-smtp:references:in-reply-to :x-apple-yahoo-original-message-folder:mime-version:message-id :x-mailer:from:x-apple-yahoo-replied-msgid:subject:date:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xGv5IE0mtatbDD+FHv/7wUOh0D4TzOApfZDC18jHjL8=; b=SuX6eGynMVc7+MstUAMM8QNQrwkK6jFTCkcoaKCDXDtq8bI0d3d7l5E+Whci/SL1eS YctJET+inAqfRFxkPp590nC7a8uVxrs4AJiIfej61otYYTmZzLYsBvjnRVmyfcdwvwE4 FbMLR9Bzm3Okq5mu+fZ7hpS9H/cZ6wgOtBHjw= Received: by 10.220.203.12 with SMTP id fg12mr156036vcb.45.1311371457426; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 14:50:57 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.52.161.199 with SMTP id xu7ls1017154vdb.0.gmail; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 14:50:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.25.244 with SMTP id f20mr483758vdg.20.1311371455702; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 14:50:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.25.244 with SMTP id f20mr483757vdg.20.1311371455695; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 14:50:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm22.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm22.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.212.181]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id dp3si2223898vdb.3.2011.07.22.14.50.55; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 14:50:55 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 98.139.212.181 as permitted sender) client-ip=98.139.212.181; Received: from [98.139.212.148] by nm22.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jul 2011 21:50:55 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.195] by tm5.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jul 2011 21:50:55 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jul 2011 21:50:55 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 321759.36480.bm@omp1004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 93629 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2011 21:50:55 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: 92z9pW4VM1n1NWP.18AMfBHx6aFg0bt5XbIAPiK8W3gUPuw Z6Y3NN1dBv8cyqd7O7ygcLatP5yyefQjWlNePNOo44t5uoMCzEFwkOZwRAEq 990Npq4zjhxO0Y8sjFvUp13JW7Fanbk85UV3lZBjX7WDHrEAS4dQBGG8BZf4 qFUuU7OgfvoY8ouCoWbANFZeZViyK8QHt7DlZFtohl84AZuuMlLInT2Vi0OU j8Ruh2Qhdl2bobg9lRII_jJxdpLZXM58Nqi247GsyJA9AZ57_HKijRQSTFJh DXUsu9uFOEBDgQLf1bL762_DqKeGR4Yt567FuQQ6XfnPMeNrPX5WgXgqo.rx Xdx._33kHni1Hkp4KVOppXe24o3sIwM3iC.HISuZpP90rXWuiKeQ5meGsz9W 4ZpTIde.I.AqnE.GZEW715L3AqoX8lFC6ikPELxonyL1bwDMQ2.gc X-Yahoo-SMTP: xvGyF4GswBCIFKGaxf5wSjlg3RF108g- Received: from [192.168.1.68] (kali9putra@99.92.108.41 with xymcookie) by smtp106-mob.biz.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jul 2011 14:50:53 -0700 PDT References: In-Reply-To: X-Apple-Yahoo-Original-Message-Folder: AAlojbanery Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPad Mail 8G4) Message-Id: <17303618-716D-4777-BAA4-1E69836AF175@yahoo.com> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8G4) From: "John E. Clifford" X-Apple-Yahoo-Replied-Msgid: 1_9374063_AHbHjkQAANINTint9wiw62ccP9Y Subject: Re: [lojban] Meaning of multiple negations Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 17:55:37 -0400 To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 98.139.212.181 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ditto (the second part) for most scope issues, especially right hand ends. = The difficulties here are a major reason why attempts to translate back fr= om Lojban to predicate logic either fail or are much more complicated than = one would expect. Sent from my iPad On Jul 22, 2011, at 17:38, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: > On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 12:40 PM, .arpis. w= rote: >> So is this something that has a correct and accepted and confusing answe= r, >> or is this something still under active discussion? >=20 > If by "this" you mean multiple negations, it has a clear answer: na na = =3D ja'a. >=20 > Or, as in your example: naku no da =3D naku naku su'o da =3D [ja'a ku] su= 'o da. >=20 > But if by "this" you mean the scope of "na", it has a correct and > simple answer, but not official, and another answer that is incorrect, > confusing and official. >=20 > mu'o mi'e xorxes >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. >=20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.