From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDp5KfxBBoEeF1g3g@googlegroups.com Fri Jul 22 14:58:14 2011 Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QkNjX-0001zA-IZ; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 14:58:14 -0700 Received: by qwh5 with SMTP id 5sf2430083qwh.16 for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 14:58:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=WC0J1jEbiH0Sb06R/lA6brAq/n3SUt3FtX8ISEJaPCc=; b=VGGsowfvC/SUOnU6NKUPcUgaacL3AJw6EBb1jTUpLTSkSNRZERaug3YXQlPRYpyUxA J9Qq+4Bepe98J4UTlqD6oEHpnFBHHeyd2BW6mpEJhEBLKYO7L87kQURch/A0YyeU5Yg/ 3dxMyi1TkWsDxlzcnwI6erJKrJlr6A2Vt9klQ= Received: by 10.229.173.42 with SMTP id n42mr265637qcz.23.1311371881268; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 14:58:01 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.127.210 with SMTP id h18ls640068qas.0.gmail; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 14:58:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.17.131 with SMTP id s3mr1743430qaa.6.1311371880718; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 14:58:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.17.131 with SMTP id s3mr1743429qaa.6.1311371880703; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 14:58:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vx0-f176.google.com ([209.85.220.176]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p20si2422950qca.0.2011.07.22.14.58.00 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 22 Jul 2011 14:58:00 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.176 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.176; Received: by vxh3 with SMTP id 3so2814811vxh.21 for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 14:58:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.179.161 with SMTP id dh1mr2132156vdc.177.1311371880467; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 14:58:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.111.198 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 14:58:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 18:58:00 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Meaning of multiple negations From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Ian Johnson wrote: > In any case, "full bridi scope" in this sense, when you are not using {naku} > (e.g. {.i naku broda gi'e brode}) is relative to the simple statement. x1 > broda x2 == P(x1,x2); x1 broda x2 gi'e brode x3 == P(x1,x2) ^ Q(x1,x2); x1 > broda x2 gi'e na[i] brode x3 == P(x1,x2) ^ ~Q(x1,x2). "Q(x1,x2)" is the > "full bridi" over which the {na} scopes, again pe'i ca'e ru'e. That's fine, but it doesn't answer the quantified case. The case we have is Ex:[P(x)^~Q(x)] There is of course no such thing as "P(Ex)^~Q(x)" in logical notation, with a quantifier squished into an argument place, so we can't use logical notation to decide whether "su'o da broda gi'e na brode" should be "Ex:[P(x)^~Q(x)]", as seems obvious but has nothing to do with negation having "full bridi scope", or something else. mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.