From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRD36KfxBBoEpKQmYw@googlegroups.com Fri Jul 22 15:07:14 2011 Received: from mail-vx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.220.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QkNs2-0005Dq-4I; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 15:07:13 -0700 Received: by vxg38 with SMTP id 38sf1282070vxg.16 for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 15:06:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZwKsRctVWlf2nbPYwKV4vO5X5HIC4vj6xK5J681Ug4g=; b=vAtHs++4dvLYppqtNZKHS3PXd0brq02iCxrV+qv4XEPNl7kziJTyYN9CHkYVWTw/Sf ohhOKJNtChyM52q+XOpRiOIU6oqXS056M+uUTdIdOW0Mvc03tp9yswf1OEInN6ju8hD0 P+qrm189sg37xidBS9zxuI5XoVukeIkyecpMQ= Received: by 10.220.102.77 with SMTP id f13mr336287vco.5.1311372407881; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 15:06:47 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.52.96.197 with SMTP id du5ls1015671vdb.1.gmail; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 15:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.187.132 with SMTP id fs4mr491548vdc.7.1311372406924; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 15:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.187.132 with SMTP id fs4mr491547vdc.7.1311372406893; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 15:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f47.google.com (mail-vw0-f47.google.com [209.85.212.47]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id v20si2234316vdu.2.2011.07.22.15.06.46 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 22 Jul 2011 15:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.47 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.47; Received: by mail-vw0-f47.google.com with SMTP id 2so2261018vws.20 for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 15:06:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.179.161 with SMTP id dh1mr2138702vdc.177.1311372406842; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 15:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.111.198 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 15:06:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <17303618-716D-4777-BAA4-1E69836AF175@yahoo.com> References: <17303618-716D-4777-BAA4-1E69836AF175@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 19:06:46 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Meaning of multiple negations From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.47 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 6:55 PM, John E. Clifford wr= ote: > Ditto (the second part) for most scope issues, especially right hand ends= . =A0The difficulties here are a major reason why attempts to translate bac= k from Lojban to predicate logic either fail or are much more complicated t= han one would expect. The rules to move from Lojban to predicate logic notation are actually quite simple if you ignore the "full bridi scope" nonsense: You convert afterthought connectives to forethought and then you just start from left to right and move things to the prenex: su'o da poi prenu cu ricfu gi'e na gleki =3D su'o da poi prenu ge ricfu gi na gleki =3D su'o da poi prenu zo'u da ge ricfu gi na gleki =3D su'o da poi prenu zo'u ge da ricfu gi da na gleki =3D su'o da poi prenu zo'u ge da ricfu gi naku zo'u da gleki =3D Ex:R(x)^~G(x) Notice that in the last step you could say that "na" has "full bridi scope", but that's only after you have moved all preceding connectives and quantifiers out of the way, not before. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.