From lojban+bncCOib25n_BhCwjKjxBBoEjstdtw@googlegroups.com Fri Jul 22 16:22:51 2011 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QkP3D-0002OG-U1; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 16:22:50 -0700 Received: by fxd2 with SMTP id 2sf3289885fxd.16 for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 16:22:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=2WvwoPaHNbKmCTBDUgmGg9aSdKD/23rpIod8HYY//4Q=; b=Hik48KfvpaiQ1HyLtmW38g4q4bELxV2ILRDo5k3CsVIKbd0nQ87GBCtXKLJ+JSrAxH qwLKPZPS+xapvsp348KYt1gND7lihGIxLvv3c2cVGu6UiOMKAWNFux3VJZ2O6ViWozB0 IN5nFzbbt99NorVXRTcT94O9pchm1agBWnO84= Received: by 10.223.55.91 with SMTP id t27mr429656fag.3.1311376944904; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 16:22:24 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.39.211 with SMTP id h19ls1229731bke.2.gmail; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 16:22:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.8.77 with SMTP id g13mr254024bkg.22.1311376943209; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 16:22:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.8.77 with SMTP id g13mr254022bkg.22.1311376943119; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 16:22:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f41.google.com (mail-fx0-f41.google.com [209.85.161.41]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k16si1158758fah.0.2011.07.22.16.22.23 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 22 Jul 2011 16:22:23 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.41 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.41; Received: by fxg9 with SMTP id 9so5978232fxg.0 for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 16:22:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.48.74 with SMTP id q10mr605488bkf.348.1311376942854; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 16:22:22 -0700 (PDT) Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.70.196 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 16:22:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 19:22:22 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Meaning of multiple negations From: ".arpis." To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.41 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rpglover64@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d99c91d8739204a8b0bcae --0016e6d99c91d8739204a8b0bcae Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I guess I'm unsure as to how far-reaching the implications of "na na =3D ja= 'a" are... If I say, e.g. {noda node bacru}, does this become {naku su'oda naku su'ode bacru} which becomes {naku naku roda su'ode bacru} which becomes {roda su'ode bacru} or more simply {roda de bacru}? Does "No one made no sound." mean "Everyone made some sound."? 2011/7/22 Jorge Llamb=EDas > On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 12:40 PM, .arpis. > wrote: > > So is this something that has a correct and accepted and confusing > answer, > > or is this something still under active discussion? > > If by "this" you mean multiple negations, it has a clear answer: na na = =3D > ja'a. > > Or, as in your example: naku no da =3D naku naku su'o da =3D [ja'a ku] su= 'o da. > > But if by "this" you mean the scope of "na", it has a correct and > simple answer, but not official, and another answer that is incorrect, > confusing and official. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > --=20 mu'o mi'e .arpis. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --0016e6d99c91d8739204a8b0bcae Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I guess I'm unsure as to how far-reaching the implications of "na = na =3D ja'a" are...

If I say, e.g. {noda node b= acru}, does this become {naku su'oda naku su'ode bacru} which becom= es {naku naku roda su'ode bacru} which becomes {roda su'ode bacru} = or more simply {roda de bacru}?

Does "No one made no sound." mean "Every= one made some sound."?

2011/7= /22 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 1= 2:40 PM, .arpis. <rpglo= ver64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:
> So is this something that has a correct and accepted and confusing ans= wer,
> or is this something still under active discussion?

If by "this" you mean multiple negations, it has a clear an= swer: na na =3D ja'a.

Or, as in your example: naku no da =3D naku naku su'o da =3D [ja'a = ku] su'o da.

But if by "this" you mean the scope of "na", it has a c= orrect and
simple answer, but not official, and another answer that is incorrect,
confusing and official.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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mu'o mi= 'e .arpis.

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