From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRDL0KvxBBoE4-yfjw@googlegroups.com Sat Jul 23 08:27:22 2011 Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qke6n-000725-GY; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 08:27:21 -0700 Received: by ywt32 with SMTP id 32sf3163900ywt.16 for ; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 08:27:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-newman-property:x-yahoo-newman-id :x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references:message-id:date:from:subject:to :in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=25u1mgeS1IQZT1DypmzsweHTk+++3Z1jHzPHZzOmyJ4=; b=puD0d83Xyk6s0jIowPd9ESjj9TJKaMOJlZx+31Mc7X0SHb+nXw6ECHTrycjKSc0bee 6kzAKzfpPZ5ooCbaMb4lTrAcL/g6whmpgETA/LOyBpC9EqcQ5lSpU8V8rFr+8cW6ptxD UNnX5SFH7JTUpGZVfTJ8kOOAYFQv7ueKIKrrA= Received: by 10.236.201.169 with SMTP id b29mr211656yho.62.1311434827058; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 08:27:07 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.139.29 with SMTP id r29ls1862682ann.2.gmail; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 08:27:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.176.165 with SMTP id b25mr1489183yhm.84.1311434825759; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 08:27:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.176.165 with SMTP id b25mr1489182yhm.84.1311434825751; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 08:27:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm5-vm0.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com (nm5-vm0.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.94.237.155]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id w5si525160ybw.0.2011.07.23.08.27.04; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 08:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.237.155 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.94.237.155; Received: from [66.94.237.196] by nm5.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2011 15:27:04 -0000 Received: from [66.94.237.124] by tm7.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2011 15:27:04 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1029.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2011 15:27:04 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 415334.65010.bm@omp1029.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 36639 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Jul 2011 15:27:04 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: aqHtixQVM1mvsLXT4fADGBa1UxxXCslw6dYhT321n605Qi0 23YM5hFnVwLpgG1Zpa3EPZc9OaI0YvDaoD7o2O3o2cBJ4P7EzBQNn5DcRP19 4e.5tHdLc5DYYhxYOGbAW.sLlhK8RA8oVxPj_0bFnfgm2Jz5OKlSedKDJtZK 9QR4cdE5t6NHJZuMUycK7lIlUfiEo61xLcsd8CVBDke_rjEJWGqYXilLJwqA 6hgwYb8fo3xHpdAb4FcpnorFNui8VxqeLU5_s.nC2N2cw2Lckp3I631zqGec pb9GYXfbiibv8HOybBHxoI8feYDXrlPPSBQldPVf1Aubkjfoxr9PLlby5bsC ERbApw9AMO3SfkIJ5M0NmxsKYZXVMQDYZNY9pGv3KSsdpurufLQvIgVwdTL5 opTT1nMa0OAH0RDpWWnDkSrpO0.NyQmvNktJH8bHYmDe.qXLlVRytPwzpxb2 hZtD8kmemhJHcPNNx_rs64jxnZQU3l0oDrN4Ts_ABOA-- Received: from [99.92.108.41] by web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 08:27:04 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/572 YahooMailWebService/0.8.112.307740 References: <17303618-716D-4777-BAA4-1E69836AF175@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1311434824.30343.YahooMailRC@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 08:27:04 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] Meaning of multiple negations To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.237.155 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I suspect the problem comes at the beginning, knowing what connectives coun= t and=20 what don't. This is particularly the case for quantifiers, which don't hav= e an=20 even vaguely specified RHE in Lojban, but must have one in logic. Negations= seem=20 less of a problem, unless they are incorporated into a quantifier. Of cour= se,=20 we could add explicit parentheses, but we don't. ----- Original Message ---- From: Jorge Llamb=EDas To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, July 23, 2011 9:22:18 AM Subject: Re: [lojban] Meaning of multiple negations On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 11:38 PM, John E. Clifford w= rote: > There are many cases where that simple approach doesn't work satisfactori= ly,=20 >mainly with longer scopes or more buried ones. I'm not aware of any such cases, at least as long as we are talking about quantifiers, logical connectives and negation. If you are talking about some other ill defined operators, we may not have everything worked out, but for those basic three types the translation of any Lojban sentence into logical notation can be done in a completely mechanical way. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= =20 "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to=20 lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at=20 http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.