From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRDLyKzxBBoEkGgvaA@googlegroups.com Sat Jul 23 12:43:21 2011 Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qki6W-0001cG-VE; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 12:43:21 -0700 Received: by ywt32 with SMTP id 32sf3321276ywt.16 for ; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 12:43:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-newman-property:x-yahoo-newman-id :x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references:message-id:date:from:subject:to :in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=MBd6gAmD7obxvwa4Vjpz5bDIvGBRPTMzqIvY3qk3XsY=; b=wXUSigZ+2D6mt47mVtdbKZQVxCAHEBx6ZerVh2xPvyGicleRXINa4CndGE1B/9awH/ hDgkAGXJD00Yuae7rLV6JN5Zjh+j7Z6oGxyE7X1XTVK+n1j3T+0PzoQo3nMkq/ZR09TY S/wzSq1dT5DLjrjTsNiJjKxxoT+e2CzvRjCfs= Received: by 10.101.174.33 with SMTP id b33mr352950anp.6.1311450187556; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 12:43:07 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.83.10 with SMTP id k10ls1333968anl.4.gmail; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 12:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.82.18 with SMTP id j18mr1275911anl.25.1311450186040; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 12:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.82.18 with SMTP id j18mr1275910anl.25.1311450186023; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 12:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm15.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com (nm15.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.94.237.216]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id n19si3822043ani.0.2011.07.23.12.43.05; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 12:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.237.216 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.94.237.216; Received: from [66.94.237.199] by nm15.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2011 19:43:05 -0000 Received: from [66.94.237.105] by tm10.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2011 19:43:05 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1010.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2011 19:43:05 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 727143.31972.bm@omp1010.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 40227 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Jul 2011 19:43:05 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: DbEB2j4VM1kcud3yDrVU.jCEXlfKEiP8X2ozL7ofJBh9emz tl6_PKNj1DuwmK6FcKiWmhH2T6wjnLleIHbSRfFLMs8BfFw4CQSODFT_t1Sx RVGlhPYROyJVx3CJiM5FroqBnjc06_660uHvCJb9_kcb.qTCFLEwAK_WRqrR B5EAwi6za5WbeQnNVw_2FTYodzSBvH4b27nXzgSIBhU.6qmKr1Zw63ccZikm Vj0YyYyPZvu1OtZXwna87d1Lj1eqxieEjy.sWRYA4ynYn.zTxLQrRaFbueXg YHwZgHymZ46GBreSUOwALYqnJ.m27BMcTGbi7VPrxJVOxy66AyhyXCHdqPci j3Y0R0ma5j8SrWgL.AMvdlaraFHcFEae.2wslOaVFQyrD2.87rLRCMXo77wW Vwgyk7Wsm2wtZphOL9fxvi1hdmKXUt0mleluLmUDWu4R_bam.01LnpBN9Eu1 Txir7wdHOtbHNx9JezsbGg7irZx4IOsDP0D.R4WxP1g-- Received: from [99.92.108.41] by web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 12:43:05 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/572 YahooMailWebService/0.8.112.307740 References: <17303618-716D-4777-BAA4-1E69836AF175@yahoo.com> <1311434824.30343.YahooMailRC@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1311450185.29641.YahooMailRC@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 12:43:05 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] Meaning of multiple negations To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.237.216 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The typical problem connective is '.i.' and RHE problems are simly those of= =20 telling where the right hand end of a quantifier's scope is. It is certain= ly=20 not confined to a simple bridi or even a complex one and may run over sever= al=20 "sentences". ----- Original Message ---- From: Jorge Llamb=EDas To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, July 23, 2011 11:32:26 AM Subject: Re: [lojban] Meaning of multiple negations On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 12:27 PM, John E Clifford wr= ote: > I suspect the problem comes at the beginning, knowing what connectives co= unt=20 >and > what don't. Not sure what you mean. The logical connectives are "ge bridi1 gi bridi2" and the same with ga, go, gu and the na/nai versions. And then there are the short hand and afterthought versions, (".e", "gi'e", ".ije") which have purely mechanical transformations to the former. By those that don't count do you mean tanru connectives? I agree that those don't count, since they don't correspond to anything in predicate logic. > This is particularly the case for quantifiers, which don't have an > even vaguely specified RHE in Lojban, but must have one in logic. What's a RHE? "su'o da zo'u" is an exact match for "Ex", and the same for the rest. > Negations seem > less of a problem, unless they are incorporated into a quantifier. Of co= urse, > we could add explicit parentheses, but we don't. I still don't see what problem you see. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= =20 "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to=20 lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at=20 http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.