From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDU-KzxBBoEpGFkrA@googlegroups.com Sat Jul 23 14:25:55 2011 Received: from mail-vx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.220.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qkjhn-0003jz-6N; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 14:25:54 -0700 Received: by vxg38 with SMTP id 38sf1697305vxg.16 for ; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 14:25:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=N2JESHeJk+/e5v0cZUcQZ+TAdLG81/p8N0au030qoHM=; b=alaZzj8PK6flRsfnccm+v90YkICd8VJH7Mc0gmINA6VJt3XcjY7gkZYb7kYMf/nWH6 5BHUs20hoNQAvqrNuYLGbpD1HXgQdFmI9vII2TipkVTu4+kOJMD//uLDZE9zhW4gb8to YcZrfnqH4yyeHKJ/ira7oWG5efrCaLg/46Cfc= Received: by 10.220.9.209 with SMTP id m17mr258929vcm.56.1311456340973; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 14:25:40 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.52.179.138 with SMTP id dg10ls1215911vdc.2.gmail; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 14:25:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.23.99 with SMTP id l3mr844519vdf.34.1311456339704; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 14:25:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.23.99 with SMTP id l3mr844518vdf.34.1311456339696; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 14:25:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vx0-f171.google.com ([209.85.220.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h2si1022447vdv.0.2011.07.23.14.25.38 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 23 Jul 2011 14:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.171; Received: by vxh11 with SMTP id 11so3803838vxh.16 for ; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 14:25:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.112.70 with SMTP id io6mr2981289vdb.512.1311456338589; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 14:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.111.198 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 14:25:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 18:25:38 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] groupyness in definitions From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > I was thinking about how one would define "vrici" in lojban (I've since > looked it up and xorxes has already done this). =A0But at the time, I cam= e up > with something like {ro xyxipa cu frica ro lo drata xyxipa lo ka xyxire}. You have three sumti there: "ro xyxipa", "ro lo drata", "xyxipa" and a fourth incomplete one "lo ka xyxire ... mo". (Officially "ro xyxipa" is only a number, not a sumti, so the whole thing is ungrammatical because of that first part too, but I agree that PA and BY should not mix, so I won't take points off for that.) You seem to be using "xyxipa" as a selbri, but it's a sumti. > Then I thought some more about it and started wondering if that {drata} w= as > really doing what I wanted it to. =A0If we're talking about {ro lo broda}= then > we're saying "all of those things that broda which are within the scope o= f > our discourse". =A0But now if I say "ro lo drata broda" that "other"ness = is > being applied to the "broda" and then we take "all of that". > Is there a way to say "all of the things in xyxipa taken as individuals > are=A0different=A0from each of (all of the things in the set xyxipa minus= itself > as individuals) in property xyxire". ro da poi me xyxipa cu frica ro de poi me xyxipa gi'e drata da ku'o xyxire I don't think "vrici" requires such total difference among the x1's though. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.