From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDQiK3xBBoEir5Exg@googlegroups.com Sat Jul 23 14:59:57 2011 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QkkEk-000573-9V; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 14:59:57 -0700 Received: by vws2 with SMTP id 2sf1702378vws.16 for ; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 14:59:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=R3iPdz6/OVeynAeOQQQvtf95t0+3GvOHr1OFKnk6BuI=; b=zYtb46SoQnPWxvlwBow68ZUFUIBVvZ7p1vBKm9aoTHFFeb2bGRx6UkwnatvnhUl6rB +hHbzhZbhBfQvoMD0Xt98Bb+dAMcLasmn4yKVkr5r2sV5HDimRg6tM3S5aWqSAZ3vT60 7+z1wEAx+Z+VitnEU1XxS2AsEktrkk9IBRadc= Received: by 10.220.203.141 with SMTP id fi13mr117627vcb.36.1311458384046; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 14:59:44 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.221.11.14 with SMTP id pc14ls556757vcb.1.canary; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 14:59:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.24.34 with SMTP id r2mr103211vdf.23.1311458383292; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 14:59:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.24.34 with SMTP id r2mr103210vdf.23.1311458383283; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 14:59:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f50.google.com (mail-vw0-f50.google.com [209.85.212.50]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h2si1043048vdv.0.2011.07.23.14.59.43 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 23 Jul 2011 14:59:43 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.50 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.50; Received: by vws14 with SMTP id 14so2782791vws.37 for ; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 14:59:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.179.161 with SMTP id dh1mr2975454vdc.177.1311458383197; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 14:59:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.111.198 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 14:59:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 18:59:43 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] la, la'o, la'e From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.50 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 2:31 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > The only thing about that first thing that strikes me as weird is that "la > cribe" seems like it should eventually come out to something like "zo'e poi > se cmene zo cribe" > Shouldn't names be restrictive and not merely indicative? It depends on the context. For example, in something like: lo ci prenu cu nerkla lo barja .i la djan cu dasni lo mapku "Three people enter a bar. John is wearing a hat." In that case you could say that "la djan" stands for "zo'e poi se cmene zo djan", where "zo'e" has three referents and "la djan" is the restriction to one of them, "the one named 'John'". But in general I don't think there is any restriction involved: ca lo prulamdei mi viska la djan "Yesterday I saw John." I think that's just "Yesterday x1 (the current speaker) saw x2 (who is named 'John')". Obviously the name of the referent is included in "la djan", and that information can be useful for the listener to identify the referent, but it is not used as a restriction from a larger set of referents. mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.