From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBCnp7bxBBoEiY1wzQ@googlegroups.com Mon Jul 25 09:03:02 2011 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QlNcQ-0000ne-Nj; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 09:03:02 -0700 Received: by wyh13 with SMTP id 13sf9664258wyh.16 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 09:02:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=2rOIm1esErZ6B1Z6+BUqBfwH8sOnvrmq6fkwmoUVSPY=; b=qArrE/2xUSikcEARK2fnKxQtdNgXK+sYsDz08YZuIiPRhDZhqwVgkZUgCZFdcyehCR bp+9iAj3SndMp5dOg6AZKWWal3XAiVd00/Ca0L7dz9xkJqN/xwa9//M/hPVJlYIm9BHq VOqb2Rq4wvCwidntjejwC2ubk5rpQrAoF5S5M= Received: by 10.216.209.8 with SMTP id r8mr289069weo.22.1311609767692; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 09:02:47 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.106.37 with SMTP id v37ls2888736wbo.1.gmail; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 09:02:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.208.21 with SMTP id ga21mr329842wbb.2.1311609766874; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 09:02:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.208.21 with SMTP id ga21mr329841wbb.2.1311609766858; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 09:02:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f174.google.com (mail-wy0-f174.google.com [74.125.82.174]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e23si6242275wbp.2.2011.07.25.09.02.46 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 25 Jul 2011 09:02:46 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.174 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.174; Received: by mail-wy0-f174.google.com with SMTP id 8so3643746wyg.5 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 09:02:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.200.18 with SMTP id eu18mr342758wbb.106.1311609766689; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 09:02:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.11.13 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 09:02:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Luke Bergen Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:02:26 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] groupyness in definitions To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.174 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry, for some reason I was thinking that xyxipa worked like "broda" and could work in tanru and whatnot. Everywhere where selkik was using {me} I intended it that way. And yeah, now that I think of it, I guess I would agree that {lo se vasru no'u la'oi m&ms cu vrici lo ka skari} even though some of the m&ms will certainly have the same color as others in the same bag. 2011/7/23 Jorge Llamb=EDas : > On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Luke Bergen wrot= e: >> I was thinking about how one would define "vrici" in lojban (I've since >> looked it up and xorxes has already done this). =A0But at the time, I ca= me up >> with something like {ro xyxipa cu frica ro lo drata xyxipa lo ka xyxire}= . > > You have three sumti there: "ro xyxipa", "ro lo drata", "xyxipa" and a > fourth incomplete one "lo ka xyxire ... mo". > > (Officially "ro xyxipa" is only a number, not a sumti, so the whole > thing is ungrammatical because of that first part too, but I agree > that PA and BY should not mix, so I won't take points off for that.) > > You seem to be using "xyxipa" as a selbri, but it's a sumti. > >> Then I thought some more about it and started wondering if that {drata} = was >> really doing what I wanted it to. =A0If we're talking about {ro lo broda= } then >> we're saying "all of those things that broda which are within the scope = of >> our discourse". =A0But now if I say "ro lo drata broda" that "other"ness= is >> being applied to the "broda" and then we take "all of that". >> Is there a way to say "all of the things in xyxipa taken as individuals >> are=A0different=A0from each of (all of the things in the set xyxipa minu= s itself >> as individuals) in property xyxire". > > ro da poi me xyxipa cu frica ro de poi me xyxipa gi'e drata da ku'o xyxir= e > > I don't think "vrici" requires such total difference among the x1's thoug= h. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.