From lojban+bncCNf8pM-bDBCJ0sTxBBoE_RjDFA@googlegroups.com Thu Jul 28 02:17:15 2011 Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QmMiJ-0001Jt-I3; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 02:17:13 -0700 Received: by qwh5 with SMTP id 5sf2480074qwh.16 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 02:17:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=rqNhnP1LIrKkFNZE8RD5SX5cfAeRlwE4mjNaowSVdoI=; b=bk9CzPcFMX2aqN6/qUAIAXe9uSI5E21jco9XV4CIOJ3P3r200HgR8U+h9DtPTGV57o ZmLdZLlTJpAv0yh0VUUg0B4k7mnEYSmuLUHdEMbHwrevm0EtUefpspXo8jYh+yk4lHX+ g0b1eYrCkWomUB5BSHyDqS4hQg7RiFMQoeyoE= Received: by 10.224.183.200 with SMTP id ch8mr122800qab.30.1311844617333; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 02:16:57 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.174.195 with SMTP id u3ls3843820qaz.6.gmail; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 02:16:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.206.137 with SMTP id fu9mr732548qab.7.1311844616677; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 02:16:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.206.137 with SMTP id fu9mr732547qab.7.1311844616669; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 02:16:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qw0-f46.google.com (mail-qw0-f46.google.com [209.85.216.46]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ge31si1037603qcb.2.2011.07.28.02.16.56 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 28 Jul 2011 02:16:56 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of paskios@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.46 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.46; Received: by qwk3 with SMTP id 3so1221911qwk.19 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 02:16:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.13.100 with SMTP id b36mr162982qca.230.1311844616536; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 02:16:56 -0700 (PDT) Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.28.130 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 02:16:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201107191408.50207.phma@phma.optus.nu> <1311780839.58357.YahooMailRC@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 10:16:56 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Gerunds, infinitives and other technicalities From: tijlan To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: paskios@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of paskios@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.46 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=paskios@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 ta'o What exactly is an "event"? Are "asking the question" and "finding not the answer" an "event"? Different jbopre might come up with different NU: lo nu preti lo pu'u preti lo du'u preti lo ka preti ... I would like to think of "nu" as a generic bridi subordinator, rather than a so-called "abstractor" that extracts specifically the so-called "event" element of something represented by a bridi. lo danfu, lo se facki, lo se jinvi, lo se ckaji, etc., conventionally represented by a non-"nu", could be as much of a nu. being / to be a good parent lo ka ce'u xamgu rirni --> lo nu ce'u xamgu rirni that you are a good parent lo du'u do xamgu rirni --> lo nu do xamgu rirni Gerunds and infinitives, which may be said to be natlang ways of creating a sumti out of a bridi subordination simultaneously, often neither specify nor give a clue about the type of its "abstraction". Also, such types in Lojban seem mostly inferable from the meaning / definition of the selbri or other contexts. If you said "ko'a ckaji lo nu ce'u xamgu rirni", using "nu" as a generic bridi subordinator instead of "ka", I would still understand what the x2 is about, insofar as I would know the relationship "ckaji" represents between x1 and x2. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.