From lojban+bncCLr6ktCfBBDuo8PwBBoE4CQj7g@googlegroups.com Sun Jul 03 13:33:01 2011 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QdTLd-0001bR-Ae; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 13:33:01 -0700 Received: by pvc22 with SMTP id 22sf4255891pvc.16 for ; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 13:32:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id :mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition; bh=eGCAWul0lUpCorFo6/lpbgxLxVrjC3aEGu3Q4nqRaYs=; b=Bd+ODe3spuK3SISq+4M+tzF3B8KQ0OxWL/WUyQzxexU9YJOfeYwDFemGWtao9YFWIj x3sGO9NseFWvK6JkI0ZtGTjJFR+GaBlUJo2ytpAu0Qa5nAllAGlTCZSFHvDuiPxH2/iD w5EkwZX1G+sS7HkwY9MlUAEOIpiAe/e2PiE8w= Received: by 10.68.17.167 with SMTP id p7mr491960pbd.59.1309725166764; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 13:32:46 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.16.199 with SMTP id i7ls3829089pbd.3.gmail; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 13:32:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.35.162 with SMTP id i2mr176669pbj.94.1309725165905; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 13:32:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.35.162 with SMTP id i2mr176668pbj.94.1309725165892; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 13:32:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pz0-f46.google.com (mail-pz0-f46.google.com [209.85.210.46]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f8si11208896pbc.0.2011.07.03.13.32.44 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 03 Jul 2011 13:32:44 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 209.85.210.46 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) client-ip=209.85.210.46; Received: by pzk9 with SMTP id 9so1177803pzk.19 for ; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 13:32:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.31.41 with SMTP id x9mr6528069pbh.418.1309725164531; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 13:32:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sunflowerriver.org (74-93-1-121-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [74.93.1.121]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p7sm1628709pbn.49.2011.07.03.13.32.42 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 03 Jul 2011 13:32:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 13:32:39 -0700 From: ".alyn.post." To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] zasni+gerna+cenba+vreji Message-ID: <20110703203239.GA2602@alice.local> Mail-Followup-To: lojban@googlegroups.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 209.85.210.46 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) smtp.mail=alanpost@sunflowerriver.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Speaking specifically of SA, I find myself of late in the position of defending the existing behavior (as largely expressed in the CLL with the "typical and obvious" clarifications from Magic Words on the wiki and other documents. I've been working on this aspect of the PEG grammar, and SA is indeed the most complex of the magic words. I'm not of the position that this complexity is somehow in a different class; that it is so much more complex than other magic words that it is worth not working on or redefining. I'm still working on this project, so don't have a fully formed opinion yet. I have understood the page mentioned by you to remove SA to focus on working on other parts of the grammar, no to fundamentally remove SA. -Alan On Sun, Jul 03, 2011 at 02:49:31PM -0400, Luke Bergen wrote: > When asked about "gije" someone replied with a link to the page for the > zasni gerna cenba vreji > ([1]http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=zasni+gerna+cenba+vreji) > I don't see anything about "gije" on that page but it could very well be > that that construct being legal and having the same meaning as "gi'e" is > just a bi-product of one of the changes listed. Could someone go into a > little detail on which of the changes on that page makes "gije" behave > like "gi'e"? > Also, in reading through that page it seems sad that "sa" would just > disappear. Couldn't we just give it a meaning that's more specific? My > first thought is to redefine it to always mean "erase everything back to > the last '.i' ". So many times I want to say "ok, I screwed up this entire > sentence beyond hope... crap, su will kill the whole discourse but to use > si I'm going to have to spend a few minutes figuring out how many words > I've said." Then I usually end up just making a whole new bridi to say > "ignore that last convoluted mess. What I meant to say was: ". > A second thought; what if we redefine sa to mean "take the next word as a > token and erase backwards until you find that token". Thus "mi citka lo > cmalu cifnu .y. .oicai sa citka cikygau lo cmalu cifnu" results in the > much more savory "mi cigygau lo cmalu cifnu". > And finally, my last question. Should I have put these questions/comments > on the tiki page? I haven't done much with tiki/wiki so it'd be new to me > but I do want to discuss this stuff in the proper location. > ki'e mu'o mi'e la .cribe. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > References > > Visible links > 1. http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=zasni+gerna+cenba+vreji -- .i ma'a lo bradi ku penmi gi'e du -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. 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