From lojban+bncCLr6ktCfBBDgucvxBBoER4861g@googlegroups.com Fri Jul 29 09:16:49 2011 Received: from mail-pz0-f56.google.com ([209.85.210.56]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qmpju-0003wq-1n; Fri, 29 Jul 2011 09:16:48 -0700 Received: by pzk33 with SMTP id 33sf11474880pzk.1 for ; Fri, 29 Jul 2011 09:16:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id :mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XRKph4jag3cBbxRp1bonS29vJSkoggAGhH7p9/Bg+1Q=; b=xJo+WcVgAqLVj06lK0XTTW2alq+WgXkhxYXnz5FVMqc9N4zXA6zoz7tauerxQ6/8iX ae/VrezEjw2nSSb91zjUuOKbX1YNmHepewCis7R9uwdLT3cZPqodcUWLoNKot+faRSOc sKApz1QPOuwaZoJCklizHdjd47v1b+oPLTunQ= Received: by 10.68.7.169 with SMTP id k9mr188619pba.33.1311956192162; Fri, 29 Jul 2011 09:16:32 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.39.97 with SMTP id o1ls14219609pbk.2.gmail; Fri, 29 Jul 2011 09:16:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.71.230 with SMTP id y6mr420794pbu.8.1311956191480; Fri, 29 Jul 2011 09:16:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.71.230 with SMTP id y6mr420793pbu.8.1311956191468; Fri, 29 Jul 2011 09:16:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pz0-f41.google.com (mail-pz0-f41.google.com [209.85.210.41]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u1si860351pbn.1.2011.07.29.09.16.30 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 29 Jul 2011 09:16:30 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 209.85.210.41 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) client-ip=209.85.210.41; Received: by mail-pz0-f41.google.com with SMTP id 4so6749335pzk.28 for ; Fri, 29 Jul 2011 09:16:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.12.100 with SMTP id x4mr2290241pbb.308.1311956190081; Fri, 29 Jul 2011 09:16:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sunflowerriver.org (173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [173.10.243.253]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p7sm2322949pbn.1.2011.07.29.09.16.26 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 29 Jul 2011 09:16:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 10:16:23 -0600 From: ".alyn.post." To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] groupyness in definitions Message-ID: <20110729161623.GA30401@alice.local> Mail-Followup-To: lojban@googlegroups.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 209.85.210.41 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) smtp.mail=alanpost@sunflowerriver.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That's a bug in the BNF/YACC grammar that is fixed in the PEG grammar. -Alan On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 09:44:30AM -0400, Michael Turniansky wrote: > It can, but xorxes point' was that "roxy.xipa" is a single numeric str= ing, > all-X(1) (remember that "paxy." -> "1X" is considered a number, and ca= n do > all things that numbers do (quantify sumti, etc.)). Since you want to = make > this two different "words" you have to end the quantifier part with a = boi, > "ro boi xy xi pa", the same as you have to do if you want to say, for > example, "xy boi zy darxi" if you mean "X hits Z", and not "xy zy darx= i" > ("XZ hits") > (Of course, jboski/genrei chokes on "xy xi pa" for reasons unknown to = me, > but there is nothing wrong with it grammatically > --gejyspa >=20 > On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 12:02 PM, Luke Bergen <[1]lukeabergen@gmail.co= m> > wrote: >=20 > Sorry, for some reason I was thinking that xyxipa worked like "broda= " > and could work in tanru and whatnot. Everywhere where selkik was > using {me} I intended it that way. >=20 > And yeah, now that I think of it, I guess I would agree that {lo se > vasru no'u la'oi m&ms cu vrici lo ka skari} even though some of the > m&ms will certainly have the same color as others in the same bag. >=20 > 2011/7/23 Jorge Llamb=EF=BF=BDas <[2]jjllambias@gmail.com>: > > On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Luke Bergen > <[3]lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I was thinking about how one would define "vrici" in lojban (I've > since > >> looked it up and xorxes has already done this). But at the time, = I > came up > >> with something like {ro xyxipa cu frica ro lo drata xyxipa lo ka > xyxire}. > > > > You have three sumti there: "ro xyxipa", "ro lo drata", "xyxipa" a= nd a > > fourth incomplete one "lo ka xyxire ... mo". > > > > (Officially "ro xyxipa" is only a number, not a sumti, so the whol= e > > thing is ungrammatical because of that first part too, but I agree > > that PA and BY should not mix, so I won't take points off for that= .) > > > > You seem to be using "xyxipa" as a selbri, but it's a sumti. > > > >> Then I thought some more about it and started wondering if that > {drata} was > >> really doing what I wanted it to. If we're talking about {ro lo > broda} then > >> we're saying "all of those things that broda which are within the > scope of > >> our discourse". But now if I say "ro lo drata broda" that "other"= ness > is > >> being applied to the "broda" and then we take "all of that". > >> Is there a way to say "all of the things in xyxipa taken as > individuals > >> are different from each of (all of the things in the set xyxipa m= inus > itself > >> as individuals) in property xyxire". > > > > ro da poi me xyxipa cu frica ro de poi me xyxipa gi'e drata da ku'= o > xyxire > > > > I don't think "vrici" requires such total difference among the x1'= s > though. > > > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "lojban" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [4]lojban@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [5]lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > [6]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > > > >=20 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to [7]lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [8]lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > [9]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >=20 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >=20 > References >=20 > Visible links > 1. mailto:lukeabergen@gmail.com > 2. mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com > 3. mailto:lukeabergen@gmail.com > 4. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com > 5. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com > 6. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den > 7. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com > 8. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com > 9. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den --=20 .i ma'a lo bradi cu penmi gi'e du --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.