From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRCgmtHxBBoEKWkwRA@googlegroups.com Sat Jul 30 11:27:58 2011 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QnEGR-00012o-Dz; Sat, 30 Jul 2011 11:27:57 -0700 Received: by vws2 with SMTP id 2sf2462122vws.16 for ; Sat, 30 Jul 2011 11:27:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=SH8j+uoeiRpQ8wUuwssGx1XAjcGVuIxXWut3t1k2/1E=; b=iLhpKzwsZZELW7jk6lRHXfoz+Xwaqxrkm423UW92x7kwqd0hmOUoTU4LHbvHRYhpE3 WJEsYJam1lDT77IY709XP4k4YtCUtk0bdUDlTD3Dw6hz8US6LLTtWONDAHZQieGUoq0r l+z8G/fcWA652DSfTmsWGokAUJZGyfoK1VOVg= Received: by 10.220.107.141 with SMTP id b13mr450154vcp.22.1312050464932; Sat, 30 Jul 2011 11:27:44 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.39.74 with SMTP id f10ls700601vce.5.canary; Sat, 30 Jul 2011 11:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.26.46 with SMTP id i14mr636332vdg.48.1312050464104; Sat, 30 Jul 2011 11:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.26.46 with SMTP id i14mr636331vdg.48.1312050464097; Sat, 30 Jul 2011 11:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vx0-f180.google.com ([209.85.220.180]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id v13si4196850vdf.3.2011.07.30.11.27.43 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 30 Jul 2011 11:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.180 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.180; Received: by mail-vx0-f180.google.com with SMTP id 12so3618342vxj.25 for ; Sat, 30 Jul 2011 11:27:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.64.207 with SMTP id q15mr2567488vds.261.1312050463001; Sat, 30 Jul 2011 11:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.115.133 with HTTP; Sat, 30 Jul 2011 11:27:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1312043030.89892.YahooMailRC@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <201107191408.50207.phma@phma.optus.nu> <1311780839.58357.YahooMailRC@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1312034760.68779.YahooMailRC@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1312043030.89892.YahooMailRC@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 15:27:42 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Gerunds, infinitives and other technicalities From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.180 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 1:23 PM, John E Clifford wro= te: > =A0But the types of 'nu' remain a problem, > since so many words have (in English at least and apparently in Lojban) s= everal > readings, one at least, in each of two or more of the subtypes. =A0Maybe = we need > either to disambiguate these words or provide some other clues when the n= ature > is unclear (there are obvious relations between these types and aspects, = for > example). Let's say, for the sake of argument, that some bridi (say "ko'a citka") could be taken as describing either an activity or a process, and that this distinction makes an important difference. We know how to indicate this distinction when the bridi is used as a subordinate clause, but how do we make the distinction at the main bridi level? If I say "ko'a citka", am I describing an activity or a process? And even in some subordinate cases, if I say "la djan djuno lo du'u ko'a citka", how can we tell whether what John knows is that a process is taking place or that an activity is taking place? If I say "lo badna poi ko'a citka ke'a", is it a banana that is being eaten as an activity or as a process? It seems to me that if marking the distinction between event types is important, Lojban marks that distinction in the wrong place. It should be marked some place where every bridi could be marked, not only some bridi in some special syntactic environment. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.