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Subject: Re: [lojban] Gerunds, infinitives and other technicalities
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 17:58:00 -0400
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Do you mean now or under the future xornu?
BTW.  I was agreeing that it did seem odd that we distinguished types of ev=
ents as subordinate but not in main clauses. I have tried to figure out wha=
t the logic differences are among the event types and they all seem to be a=
bout what one can say and I am not sure how they work out in Lojban.  I thi=
nk we can distinguish ending from completing (vital for activity-process); =
I am less sure about other notions.  An achievement is generally the comple=
tion of a process, as it's telic  nature more or less guarantees, though so=
metimes the mere change of state, without reference to the forces involved,=
 is also included: eating after a period of frustrated attempts, surely, ch=
ange of energy state of an electron not so clearly.  In any case, these dif=
ferences, if they are significant at all, are surely as (or, probably, more=
) for main clauses, where the action is.  But I am not sure they matter at =
all since the can be built into the presuppositions of any argument where t=
hey play a role.

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 30, 2011, at 16:54, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:

> Oh.... so what's the difference between {nu} and {su'u}?
>=20
> 2011/7/30 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
> On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrot=
e:
> > Right.  Could we just instead say things like {mi zgana lo nu'ai do cit=
ka
> > keiku no'u lo fasnu} if it's really that important that we specify that=
 this
> > is an event and not a process/state/etc...?
>=20
> No need for "nu'ai". "nu" is already, by definition, the cover term
> for the four event categories: pu'u, zu'o, za'i and mu'e.
>=20
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>=20
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>=20
>=20
> --=20
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<html><body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div>Do you mean now or under the future xo=
rnu?</div><div>BTW. &nbsp;I was agreeing that it did seem odd that we disti=
nguished types of events as subordinate but not in main clauses. I have tri=
ed to figure out what the logic differences are among the event types and t=
hey all seem to be about what one can say and I am not sure how they work o=
ut in Lojban. &nbsp;I think we can distinguish ending from completing (vita=
l for activity-process); I am less sure about other notions. &nbsp;An achie=
vement is generally the completion of a process, as it's telic &nbsp;nature=
 more or less guarantees, though sometimes the mere change of state, withou=
t reference to the forces involved, is also included: eating after a period=
 of frustrated attempts, surely, change of energy state of an electron not =
so clearly. &nbsp;In any case, these differences, if they are significant a=
t all, are surely as (or, probably, more) for main clauses, where the actio=
n is. &nbsp;But I am not sure they matter at all since the can be built int=
o the presuppositions of any argument where they play a role.</div><div><br=
>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On Jul 30, 2011, at 16:54, Luke Bergen &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:lukeabergen@gmail.com">lukeabergen@gmail.com</a>&gt; wro=
te:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>Oh.... so what's=
 the difference between {nu} and {su'u}?<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
2011/7/30 Jorge Llamb=EDas <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jjllambi=
as@gmail.com"><a href=3D"mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com">jjllambias@gmail.com<=
/a></a>&gt;</span><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0=
 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">

<div class=3D"im">On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Luke Bergen &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:lukeabergen@gmail.com"><a href=3D"mailto:lukeabergen@gmail.com">=
lukeabergen@gmail.com</a></a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; Right. &nbsp;Could we just instead say things like {mi zgana lo nu'ai =
do citka<br>
&gt; keiku no'u lo fasnu} if it's really that important that we specify tha=
t this<br>
&gt; is an event and not a process/state/etc...?<br>
<br>
</div>No need for "nu'ai". "nu" is already, by definition, the cover term<b=
r>
for the four event categories: pu'u, zu'o, za'i and mu'e.<br>
<div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
mu'o mi'e xorxes<br>
<br>
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.<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>

<p></p>

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</div></blockquote></body></html>

<p></p>

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