From lojban+bncCMGclZyxExDfhtTxBBoEfu5wfA@googlegroups.com Sun Jul 31 00:25:32 2011 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QnQOw-0006td-4M; Sun, 31 Jul 2011 00:25:32 -0700 Received: by gxk3 with SMTP id 3sf7090731gxk.16 for ; Sun, 31 Jul 2011 00:25:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:user-agent:x-http-useragent :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence :mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=sDmyKN8l+baZDvImCBPytN7dixZ3zOBioPA1o0LnQmw=; b=6ubMjLSOfFtL9vVaXqWHQRluazUgkGjjCTu2N7zIdaIIfhQUBhhab+VeBPglnugFsD YHqByekEVg3gyQTjIiaQQ3uSxL/snGZCzccpic23G0iS4g5HQ40UTfg5/buDEsPUIVoN zxDadhM9piUikxzYrLzOrMTomNDRjqEZzQuv4= Received: by 10.236.183.163 with SMTP id q23mr298685yhm.60.1312097120000; Sun, 31 Jul 2011 00:25:20 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.139.29 with SMTP id r29ls10110223ann.2.gmail; Sun, 31 Jul 2011 00:25:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.199.30 with SMTP id b30mr446424anq.22.1312097119355; Sun, 31 Jul 2011 00:25:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by s17g2000yqs.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Sun, 31 Jul 2011 00:25:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 00:25:19 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; fr; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100401 Ubuntu/9.10 (karmic) Firefox/3.5.9,gzip(gfe) Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] Two views of logic ? From: Escape Landsome To: lojban X-Original-Sender: escaaape@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hello, there has been some discussion recently about the question of the meaning of AND (I used AND in a sense that was different from the pure logical AND, meaning something akin to OOP-multiple inheritance). Now, I'd like to draw your attention on something that bothers me : although this is not strictly a lojban-related question, it shares some relation with lojbanic interests. It is the fact that natlang AND is not exactly logical AND (this is not a new item), --- EVEN WHEN the "semantic import" of AND is a logical one (this is more of a new item). Let me make myself clearer with a natlang example : when I say, "John is ill, this may be because of X, OR SOMETHING ELSE", there is a logical import in this sentence, which is, roughly speaking, the logical conditions by which we can tell if this sentence is true or not... and there is also a semantic and a pragmatic import. I claim that here the logical and the semantic imports are distinct. Indeed, saying that somebody is ill "for some reason, or for some other else", is tautologic, as it is clear that (X or something else) maps everything in the world. Yet, semantically (and even pragmatically), saying "X or something else" is a good way of saying "anything, but more acutely X" (or, more probably). You may reply that, in this case, what is said is "anything, but more acutely X", which is not "anything", neither a "OR-expression". I agree with that. So, we need a semantic connector to say "A but more acutely B" ? Also, please note that "X.... or something else...." is justified in a "cognitive-time-elapsing event" of scanning all the possible causes of John's illness. The speaker begins by regarding X as a cause, then adds the modifier "or something else" as a second-order correction. Maybe, this very way of scanning things, as a first-order assertion corrected by a second-order one, should be kept. Maybe the connector "ko'a but more acutely ko'e" should render the mindflow logic of this second-order correction ? -- .esk -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.