From lojban+bncCK30vq5WENTEzvAEGgSx6223@googlegroups.com Tue Jul 05 16:46:41 2011 Received: from mail-pz0-f61.google.com ([209.85.210.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QeFKB-0002DE-0A; Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:46:40 -0700 Received: by pzk4 with SMTP id 4sf2970785pzk.16 for ; Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:46:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition :content-transfer-encoding; bh=dsaF1qy/tfXbFzGjhfLnn2+Ztci9Yd16/5dk+sNha7s=; b=FelidcqScyQlQdounIcJu9Si134Jk5aN7+3mQBSw6rzN4iS2V08Kb2MX4znhMurXhH qGRc0E+Gq8kVIZ0gEpT8fgaVlUJqYMNHjVFYrDVDyw0Y7ssZAkqQeWVqBxB0bLxNcl2q tB7iumHWJIz7OOu44T5FZM4F9RVgX1XbXc7kg= Received: by 10.68.21.130 with SMTP id v2mr1396279pbe.9.1309909588205; Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:46:28 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.37.105 with SMTP id x9ls3782815pbj.2.gmail; Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:46:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.14.194 with SMTP id r2mr1784591pbc.74.1309909587232; Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:46:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.14.194 with SMTP id r2mr1784590pbc.74.1309909587216; Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:46:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org (digitalkingdom.org [173.13.139.234]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c10si15577046pbn.1.2011.07.05.16.46.27 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:46:27 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.234 as permitted sender) client-ip=173.13.139.234; Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QeFJx-0002D6-PV for lojban@googlegroups.com; Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:46:26 -0700 Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 16:46:25 -0700 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] sivni jikca Message-ID: <20110705234625.GC8547@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20110705170131.GN8547@digitalkingdom.org> <20110705222333.GV8547@digitalkingdom.org> <20110705231158.GZ8547@digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.234 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jul 05, 2011 at 08:36:47PM -0300, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: > On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 8:11 PM, Robin Lee Powell > wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 05, 2011 at 07:54:44PM -0300, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: > >> > >> "za'u [pa] re'u" =3D "not for the first time" =3D "again". > > > > No, that's "for the more than oneth time"; it applies to *every* > > time except the first. >=20 > Just like "again". >=20 > I tried on Monday, then again on Tuesday, and yet again on > Wednesday. That's in the past; I'm not talking about that case at all. When referring to future incidents, "again" strictly refers to the next instance; see below. At least in my dialect. > > I want "nexth" not "greater than oneth". >=20 > "next-th" seems to put an additional focus on the preceding time, > rather than just saying that the time in question is a repetition, > not the original one. Yes, exactly; I want "I'm going to try rebooting the computer again". That only refers to the immediately-next time I reboot it, not the time after that, or the time after that. I mean, yes, of course I'm going to reboot the computer many times over its life, but I'm only talking about the immediately next instance. {ba za'u re'u} encodes some of this, but not enough for my taste; I wish to specifically talk about the next, adjacent repitition; if that's not "again", fine; I still want it. > >> lo nu za'u re'u broda =3D lo krefu be lo nu broda bei li za'u > > > > .ie .i ku'i mi djica le balvi lamji krefu po'o .e nai ro krefu > > be fi le za'u >=20 > "za'u re'u" only says that the time in question is not the first > one. It is a single time, one other than the first one.=20 *ponder* Yes, you're right; sorry about that. -Robin --=20 http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.