From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhCv3dTwBBoEujG3ww@googlegroups.com Wed Jul 06 20:57:49 2011 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qefik-0004EO-Qv; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 20:57:48 -0700 Received: by qyk31 with SMTP id 31sf567691qyk.16 for ; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 20:57:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=3pT3aUNcF2lbA+R9K7seURrLlGTqL3AcKX6taIWnxRU=; b=JDACezIPsonUSeVYvU34QRmpKyGaCtq2XpVqlPKye2dOHrNHq0QBgxsRbFOMq2SjS4 gnqNnWsM4tGIJNK1DY/1vX5ULY5xXp4XhGfoGUcp3wHwoh2csTic2SXEGL6a9wKdiArV TiKd3t7+7q3T2Ger8up1e8tiMGVw1+TdHlvyk= Received: by 10.224.33.211 with SMTP id i19mr32648qad.29.1310011055452; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 20:57:35 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.42.129 with SMTP id s1ls61470qae.6.gmail; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 20:57:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.194.5 with SMTP id dw5mr434254qab.5.1310011053436; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 20:57:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.194.5 with SMTP id dw5mr434253qab.5.1310011053420; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 20:57:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f181.google.com (mail-iw0-f181.google.com [209.85.214.181]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k32si8639078qcs.1.2011.07.06.20.57.33 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 06 Jul 2011 20:57:33 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.181 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.181; Received: by iwn37 with SMTP id 37so611732iwn.12 for ; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 20:57:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.111.36 with SMTP id q36mr293689ibp.142.1310011051663; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 20:57:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.13.195 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 20:57:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20110706231714.GW8547@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20110706231714.GW8547@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 21:57:31 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] da broda, ko'a broda, da bu'a, zo'e co'e From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.181 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016363b917262e2f504a772b7a2 --0016363b917262e2f504a772b7a2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 What's the attitudinal for sarcasm again? On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 5:17 PM, Robin Lee Powell < rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote: > On Wed, Jul 06, 2011 at 04:02:07AM -0600, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 3:05 AM, tijlan wrote: > > > > > We often use the combination of "da/de/di" & > > > "broda/brode/brodi/brodo/brodu" when we describe the grammar by way of > > > syntactically indicating but not semantically specifying the sumti & > > > selbri spaces. For example: > > > > > > da broda lo nu brode kei de lo brodi di > > > > > > That is, some of us (including myself) tend to use a pair of "da/..." > > > & "broda/..." to explain the general structure of a particular > > > expression or to suggest how to put together whatever sumti or selbri > > > for a certain form of expression. > > > > > > Some nintadni would then likely get the impression that > > > > > > whatever sumti <-- da > > > whatever selbri <-- broda > > > > > > and perhaps, with the gimmicks of LE-sumtification and > ME-selbrification, > > > that > > > > > > me da (is-whatever) = broda > > > lo broda (that which is-whatever) = da > > > > > > That notion might also be informally driven by the appearance that > > > "da" and "broda" share an identical syllable. > > > > > > The whole assumed correspondence between "da" & "broda" wouldn't be > > > correct, however. "da/..." are BOUND VARIABLEs, while "broda/..." are > > > ASSIGNABLE PRO-FORMs", which is an important distinction to make > > > regarding the practice of quantification. Also, there is the > > > selbri-type of bound variables -- "bu'a/bu'e/bu'i" -- and the > > > sumti-type of assignable pro-forms -- "ko'a/ko'e/ko'i/...". That is: > > > > > > "broda" (assignable pro-form) aligns more with "ko'a" (assignable > > > pro-form) than with "da" (bound variable) > > > > > > and > > > > > > "da" (bound variable) aligns more with "bu'a" (bound variable) than > > > with "broda" (assignable pro-form) > > > > > > These alignments may be comparable to that of "zo'e" & "co'e" as well. > > > > > > With that in mind, which of the following combinations would most > > > finely substitute for the oft-used "da broda" in generalizing > > > grammatical structures: > > > > > > ko'a broda > > > da bu'a > > > zo'e co'e > > > > > > > > > mu'o mi'e tijlan > > > > > > > da broda > > > > If it ain't broke, don't fix it. > > Boy are *you* in the wrong community. 0.o > > Also, I think the fact that it *is* broke was pretty well > demonstrated. > > For arbitrary grammatical exposition, I'd say {zo'e co'e} or {ko'a > broda}; I have no strong preference. For actual logical > correspondance, {da bu'a}, but it's rare that that actually comes > up. > > -Robin > > -- > http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. > Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" > is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016363b917262e2f504a772b7a2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What's the attitudinal for sarcasm again?

On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 5:17 PM, Robin Lee Powell <= ;rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org= > wrote:
On Wed, J= ul 06, 2011 at 04:02:07AM -0600, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 3:05 AM, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > We often use the combination of "da/de/di" &
> > "broda/brode/brodi/brodo/brodu" when we describe the gr= ammar by way of
> > syntactically indicating but not semantically specifying the sumt= i &
> > selbri spaces. For example:
> >
> > =A0da broda lo nu brode kei de lo brodi di
> >
> > That is, some of us (including myself) tend to use a pair of &quo= t;da/..."
> > & "broda/..." to explain the general structure of a= particular
> > expression or to suggest how to put together whatever sumti or se= lbri
> > for a certain form of expression.
> >
> > Some nintadni would then likely get the impression that
> >
> > =A0whatever sumti <-- da
> > =A0whatever selbri <-- broda
> >
> > and perhaps, with the gimmicks of LE-sumtification and ME-selbrif= ication,
> > that
> >
> > =A0me da (is-whatever) =3D broda
> > =A0lo broda (that which is-whatever) =3D da
> >
> > That notion might also be informally driven by the appearance tha= t
> > "da" and "broda" share an identical syllable.=
> >
> > The whole assumed correspondence between "da" & &qu= ot;broda" wouldn't be
> > correct, however. "da/..." are BOUND VARIABLEs, while &= quot;broda/..." are
> > ASSIGNABLE PRO-FORMs", which is an important distinction to = make
> > regarding the practice of quantification. Also, there is the
> > selbri-type of bound variables -- "bu'a/bu'e/bu'= i" -- and the
> > sumti-type of assignable pro-forms -- "ko'a/ko'e/ko&= #39;i/...". That is:
> >
> > =A0"broda" (assignable pro-form) aligns more with "= ;ko'a" (assignable
> > pro-form) than with "da" (bound variable)
> >
> > and
> >
> > =A0"da" (bound variable) aligns more with "bu'= a" (bound variable) than
> > with "broda" (assignable pro-form)
> >
> > These alignments may be comparable to that of "zo'e"= ; & "co'e" as well.
> >
> > With that in mind, which of the following combinations would most=
> > finely substitute for the oft-used "da broda" in genera= lizing
> > grammatical structures:
> >
> > =A0ko'a broda
> > =A0da bu'a
> > =A0zo'e co'e
> >
> >
> > mu'o mi'e tijlan
> >
>
> da broda
>
> If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Boy are *you* in the wrong community. =A00.o

Also, I think the fact that it *is* broke was pretty well
demonstrated.

For arbitrary grammatical exposition, I'd say {zo'e co'e} or {k= o'a
broda}; I have no strong preference. =A0For actual logical
correspondance, {da bu'a}, but it's rare that that actually comes up.

-Robin

--
http://singinst.org/= : =A0Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
Lojban (http://www.loj= ban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this senten= ce is false"
is "na nei". =A0 My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/

--
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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.




--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
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