From lojban+bncCK30vq5WEN-K1fAEGgRXPGg9@googlegroups.com Wed Jul 06 22:34:38 2011 Received: from mail-pw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.160.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QehEQ-0006e0-GM; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 22:34:38 -0700 Received: by pwj8 with SMTP id 8sf270678pwj.16 for ; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 22:34:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; bh=GU1sBNr3iMv0g9iHD+57ALMDD+IzeOb5FE7KT75GBrE=; b=mYhcLs0YMgKHt7nn4bQ1XTMrOVxHXKHfGNbgLPNcGfmEByAfwa3IiSYwXOoM1tzPXw SxFt98Pbd1WiF/0D06ySCie2zFHORU2+hBuAzNdy81wM11guBZnbPLDjTIzDaDlB/85+ vkQFr1hK5pnMw/JHg3SXhEUNEf22M3onHUVSU= Received: by 10.142.60.6 with SMTP id i6mr36656wfa.29.1310016863714; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 22:34:23 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.47.4 with SMTP id z4ls432137pbm.0.gmail; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 22:34:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.7.42 with SMTP id g10mr3900pba.56.1310016863166; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 22:34:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.7.42 with SMTP id g10mr3899pba.56.1310016863137; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 22:34:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org (digitalkingdom.org [173.13.139.234]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id v9si18186465pbc.2.2011.07.06.22.34.21 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 06 Jul 2011 22:34:21 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.234 as permitted sender) client-ip=173.13.139.234; Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QehEC-0006du-FP for lojban@googlegroups.com; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 22:34:20 -0700 Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 22:34:20 -0700 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] da broda, ko'a broda, da bu'a, zo'e co'e Message-ID: <20110707053420.GA8547@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20110706231714.GW8547@digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.234 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline I usually use {je'u nai} -Robin On Wed, Jul 06, 2011 at 09:57:31PM -0600, Jonathan Jones wrote: > What's the attitudinal for sarcasm again? > > On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 5:17 PM, Robin Lee Powell < > rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote: > > > On Wed, Jul 06, 2011 at 04:02:07AM -0600, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > > On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 3:05 AM, tijlan wrote: > > > > > > > We often use the combination of "da/de/di" & > > > > "broda/brode/brodi/brodo/brodu" when we describe the grammar by way of > > > > syntactically indicating but not semantically specifying the sumti & > > > > selbri spaces. For example: > > > > > > > > da broda lo nu brode kei de lo brodi di > > > > > > > > That is, some of us (including myself) tend to use a pair of "da/..." > > > > & "broda/..." to explain the general structure of a particular > > > > expression or to suggest how to put together whatever sumti or selbri > > > > for a certain form of expression. > > > > > > > > Some nintadni would then likely get the impression that > > > > > > > > whatever sumti <-- da > > > > whatever selbri <-- broda > > > > > > > > and perhaps, with the gimmicks of LE-sumtification and > > ME-selbrification, > > > > that > > > > > > > > me da (is-whatever) = broda > > > > lo broda (that which is-whatever) = da > > > > > > > > That notion might also be informally driven by the appearance that > > > > "da" and "broda" share an identical syllable. > > > > > > > > The whole assumed correspondence between "da" & "broda" wouldn't be > > > > correct, however. "da/..." are BOUND VARIABLEs, while "broda/..." are > > > > ASSIGNABLE PRO-FORMs", which is an important distinction to make > > > > regarding the practice of quantification. Also, there is the > > > > selbri-type of bound variables -- "bu'a/bu'e/bu'i" -- and the > > > > sumti-type of assignable pro-forms -- "ko'a/ko'e/ko'i/...". That is: > > > > > > > > "broda" (assignable pro-form) aligns more with "ko'a" (assignable > > > > pro-form) than with "da" (bound variable) > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > "da" (bound variable) aligns more with "bu'a" (bound variable) than > > > > with "broda" (assignable pro-form) > > > > > > > > These alignments may be comparable to that of "zo'e" & "co'e" as well. > > > > > > > > With that in mind, which of the following combinations would most > > > > finely substitute for the oft-used "da broda" in generalizing > > > > grammatical structures: > > > > > > > > ko'a broda > > > > da bu'a > > > > zo'e co'e > > > > > > > > > > > > mu'o mi'e tijlan > > > > > > > > > > da broda > > > > > > If it ain't broke, don't fix it. > > > > Boy are *you* in the wrong community. 0.o > > > > Also, I think the fact that it *is* broke was pretty well > > demonstrated. > > > > For arbitrary grammatical exposition, I'd say {zo'e co'e} or {ko'a > > broda}; I have no strong preference. For actual logical > > correspondance, {da bu'a}, but it's rare that that actually comes > > up. > > > > -Robin > > > > -- > > http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. > > Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot > > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" > > is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "lojban" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.