From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhDO6NXwBBoEB8d-3g@googlegroups.com Thu Jul 07 01:54:53 2011 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QekMD-0003qW-Ns; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 01:54:53 -0700 Received: by gwb11 with SMTP id 11sf687469gwb.16 for ; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 01:54:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=gV0KUtf8aPP8eseMZ860EnRS7AEqjBi/zfoXuWXEU4I=; b=GWjO6ugZ6hYVNbUFqfn5I1oZjxjY467zWiRB/9Jyii/T/e8GIWqVleKPJeAIenoI64 fslDgf/Um2rlxb/xpx8eRg9Z+/89tUj3Glrnm3h4VHyTMlka6gtnYM+1TxqE5tstTKCZ S3IXcVB96486rzGdtOM1b6c/r5fOsvdKCIQsA= Received: by 10.236.176.138 with SMTP id b10mr32330yhm.24.1310028878361; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 01:54:38 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.57.198 with SMTP id d6ls379089ibh.2.gmail; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 01:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.42.218.135 with SMTP id hq7mr128292icb.85.1310028877444; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 01:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.42.218.135 with SMTP id hq7mr128291icb.85.1310028877421; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 01:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f170.google.com (mail-iw0-f170.google.com [209.85.214.170]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n12si3568546icr.0.2011.07.07.01.54.37 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 07 Jul 2011 01:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.170 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.170; Received: by iwn36 with SMTP id 36so754708iwn.29 for ; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 01:54:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.111.36 with SMTP id q36mr498255ibp.142.1310028876584; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 01:54:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.13.195 with HTTP; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 01:54:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20110707053420.GA8547@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20110706231714.GW8547@digitalkingdom.org> <20110707053420.GA8547@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 02:54:36 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] da broda, ko'a broda, da bu'a, zo'e co'e From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.170 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016363b9172d595ff04a776ddad --0016363b9172d595ff04a776ddad Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Alright, then. sa je'u nai da On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 11:34 PM, Robin Lee Powell < rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote: > I usually use {je'u nai} > > -Robin > > On Wed, Jul 06, 2011 at 09:57:31PM -0600, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > What's the attitudinal for sarcasm again? > > > > On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 5:17 PM, Robin Lee Powell < > > rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Jul 06, 2011 at 04:02:07AM -0600, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > > > On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 3:05 AM, tijlan wrote: > > > > > > > > > We often use the combination of "da/de/di" & > > > > > "broda/brode/brodi/brodo/brodu" when we describe the grammar by way > of > > > > > syntactically indicating but not semantically specifying the sumti > & > > > > > selbri spaces. For example: > > > > > > > > > > da broda lo nu brode kei de lo brodi di > > > > > > > > > > That is, some of us (including myself) tend to use a pair of > "da/..." > > > > > & "broda/..." to explain the general structure of a particular > > > > > expression or to suggest how to put together whatever sumti or > selbri > > > > > for a certain form of expression. > > > > > > > > > > Some nintadni would then likely get the impression that > > > > > > > > > > whatever sumti <-- da > > > > > whatever selbri <-- broda > > > > > > > > > > and perhaps, with the gimmicks of LE-sumtification and > > > ME-selbrification, > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > me da (is-whatever) = broda > > > > > lo broda (that which is-whatever) = da > > > > > > > > > > That notion might also be informally driven by the appearance that > > > > > "da" and "broda" share an identical syllable. > > > > > > > > > > The whole assumed correspondence between "da" & "broda" wouldn't be > > > > > correct, however. "da/..." are BOUND VARIABLEs, while "broda/..." > are > > > > > ASSIGNABLE PRO-FORMs", which is an important distinction to make > > > > > regarding the practice of quantification. Also, there is the > > > > > selbri-type of bound variables -- "bu'a/bu'e/bu'i" -- and the > > > > > sumti-type of assignable pro-forms -- "ko'a/ko'e/ko'i/...". That > is: > > > > > > > > > > "broda" (assignable pro-form) aligns more with "ko'a" (assignable > > > > > pro-form) than with "da" (bound variable) > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > "da" (bound variable) aligns more with "bu'a" (bound variable) > than > > > > > with "broda" (assignable pro-form) > > > > > > > > > > These alignments may be comparable to that of "zo'e" & "co'e" as > well. > > > > > > > > > > With that in mind, which of the following combinations would most > > > > > finely substitute for the oft-used "da broda" in generalizing > > > > > grammatical structures: > > > > > > > > > > ko'a broda > > > > > da bu'a > > > > > zo'e co'e > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mu'o mi'e tijlan > > > > > > > > > > > > > da broda > > > > > > > > If it ain't broke, don't fix it. > > > > > > Boy are *you* in the wrong community. 0.o > > > > > > Also, I think the fact that it *is* broke was pretty well > > > demonstrated. > > > > > > For arbitrary grammatical exposition, I'd say {zo'e co'e} or {ko'a > > > broda}; I have no strong preference. For actual logical > > > correspondance, {da bu'a}, but it's rare that that actually comes > > > up. > > > > > > -Robin > > > > > > -- > > > http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. > > > Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot > > > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" > > > is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ > > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "lojban" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > > -- > http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. > Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" > is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016363b9172d595ff04a776ddad Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alright, then.

sa je'u nai da

= On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 11:34 PM, Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org= > wrote:
I usually use {je'u nai}

-Robin

On Wed, Jul 06, 2011 at 09:57:31PM -0600, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> What's the attitudinal for sarcasm again?
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 5:17 PM, Robin Lee Powell <
> rlpowell@digitalkingdom= .org> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Jul 06, 2011 at 04:02:07AM -0600, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > > On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 3:05 AM, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > We often use the combination of "da/de/di" &a= mp;
> > > > "broda/brode/brodi/brodo/brodu" when we descr= ibe the grammar by way of
> > > > syntactically indicating but not semantically specifyin= g the sumti &
> > > > selbri spaces. For example:
> > > >
> > > > =A0da broda lo nu brode kei de lo brodi di
> > > >
> > > > That is, some of us (including myself) tend to use a pa= ir of "da/..."
> > > > & "broda/..." to explain the general stru= cture of a particular
> > > > expression or to suggest how to put together whatever s= umti or selbri
> > > > for a certain form of expression.
> > > >
> > > > Some nintadni would then likely get the impression that=
> > > >
> > > > =A0whatever sumti <-- da
> > > > =A0whatever selbri <-- broda
> > > >
> > > > and perhaps, with the gimmicks of LE-sumtification and<= br> > > ME-selbrification,
> > > > that
> > > >
> > > > =A0me da (is-whatever) =3D broda
> > > > =A0lo broda (that which is-whatever) =3D da
> > > >
> > > > That notion might also be informally driven by the appe= arance that
> > > > "da" and "broda" share an identical= syllable.
> > > >
> > > > The whole assumed correspondence between "da"= & "broda" wouldn't be
> > > > correct, however. "da/..." are BOUND VARIABLE= s, while "broda/..." are
> > > > ASSIGNABLE PRO-FORMs", which is an important disti= nction to make
> > > > regarding the practice of quantification. Also, there i= s the
> > > > selbri-type of bound variables -- "bu'a/bu'= ;e/bu'i" -- and the
> > > > sumti-type of assignable pro-forms -- "ko'a/ko= 'e/ko'i/...". That is:
> > > >
> > > > =A0"broda" (assignable pro-form) aligns more = with "ko'a" (assignable
> > > > pro-form) than with "da" (bound variable)
> > > >
> > > > and
> > > >
> > > > =A0"da" (bound variable) aligns more with &qu= ot;bu'a" (bound variable) than
> > > > with "broda" (assignable pro-form)
> > > >
> > > > These alignments may be comparable to that of "zo&= #39;e" & "co'e" as well.
> > > >
> > > > With that in mind, which of the following combinations = would most
> > > > finely substitute for the oft-used "da broda"= in generalizing
> > > > grammatical structures:
> > > >
> > > > =A0ko'a broda
> > > > =A0da bu'a
> > > > =A0zo'e co'e
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > mu'o mi'e tijlan
> > > >
> > >
> > > da broda
> > >
> > > If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
> >
> > Boy are *you* in the wrong community. =A00.o
> >
> > Also, I think the fact that it *is* broke was pretty well
> > demonstrated.
> >
> > For arbitrary grammatical exposition, I'd say {zo'e co= 9;e} or {ko'a
> > broda}; I have no strong preference. =A0For actual logical
> > correspondance, {da bu'a}, but it's rare that that actual= ly comes
> > up.
> >
> > -Robin
> >
> > --
> > http://singins= t.org/ : =A0Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
> > Lojban (http= ://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
> > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "t= his sentence is false"
> > is "na nei". =A0 My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/= rlp/
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Googl= e Groups
> > "lojban" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > lojban+u= nsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo= 'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
> --
> You received this message because yo= u are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/= lojban?hl=3Den.
>

--
http://singinst.org/= : =A0Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
Lojban (http://www.loj= ban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this senten= ce is false"
is "na nei". =A0 My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.




--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
--0016363b9172d595ff04a776ddad--