From lojban+bncCOTEtqyUDhDco77yBBoEsoikrg@googlegroups.com Sat Aug 20 03:52:27 2011 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QujA7-0002nD-5W; Sat, 20 Aug 2011 03:52:26 -0700 Received: by gxk3 with SMTP id 3sf5606207gxk.16 for ; Sat, 20 Aug 2011 03:52:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:x-pgp-key:x-pgp-keyid:user-agent :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding; bh=1FOVKs6lPj1Nlk0w6Xr9Wd4Xy1Xz/t5XJXDUlwdPeYQ=; b=US5VV/2QpikXRw4lpma3KkEmvoCjOeeweypZD0ezxQnzew1NFqjvTvxvm+haYUPxk2 +EYTz3fMbozyEHrbT/zbabOYFMCQg7EsUvG3PB8ifec987upDNiODAVLho0nrNlCUEL/ QFk/chuooFPX07+7Giju5W1qTcoAxn4FZO+1c= Received: by 10.146.22.20 with SMTP id 20mr60814yav.21.1313837532989; Sat, 20 Aug 2011 03:52:12 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.8.144 with SMTP id h16ls2910342ibh.1.gmail; Sat, 20 Aug 2011 03:52:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.42.189.8 with SMTP id dc8mr884927icb.9.1313837531576; Sat, 20 Aug 2011 03:52:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.42.189.8 with SMTP id dc8mr884926icb.9.1313837531566; Sat, 20 Aug 2011 03:52:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sdf.lonestar.org (mx.sdf.org [192.94.73.19]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ll18si8765107pbb.0.2011.08.20.03.52.10 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 20 Aug 2011 03:52:10 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of mbays@sdf.org designates 192.94.73.19 as permitted sender) client-ip=192.94.73.19; Received: from sdf.org (mbays@sverige.freeshell.org [192.94.73.4]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p7KAqAeu002112 for ; Sat, 20 Aug 2011 10:52:10 GMT Received: (from mbays@localhost) by sdf.org (8.14.4/8.12.8/Submit) id p7KAqALk028838 for lojban@googlegroups.com; Sat, 20 Aug 2011 10:52:10 GMT Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 10:52:10 +0000 From: Martin Bays To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] xorlo and masses Message-ID: <20110820105209.GD25668@SDF.ORG> References: <1313511086.45473.YahooMailRC@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20110817114634.GE6674@gonzales> <1313593494.36002.YahooMailRC@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20110819002533.GG6674@gonzales> <20110819100840.GA27065@SDF.ORG> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-PGP-Key: http://mbays.freeshell.org/pubkey.asc X-PGP-KeyId: B5FB2CD6 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Original-Sender: mbays@sdf.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of mbays@sdf.org designates 192.94.73.19 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mbays@sdf.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable * Friday, 2011-08-19 at 18:57 -0300 - Jorge Llamb=EDas : > On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 7:08 AM, Martin Bays wrote: > > * Thursday, 2011-08-18 at 23:28 -0300 - Jorge Llamb=EDas : > >> On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 9:25 PM, Martin Bays wrote: > >> > > >> > A unary predicate P is 'distributive' iff > >> > =A0 =A0\forall x,y. ( ( x Part y /\ P(y) ) --> P(x) ). > >> > >> A predicate P is 'distributive with respect to Q' iff > >> =A0\forall x,y. ( ( Q(x) /\ x Part y /\ P(y) ) --> P(x) ). > > > > Do you mean that we could then talk not about global atoms but about > > "P-atoms", by which I mean the x which are minimal such that P(x)? And > > so have {re P cu broda} mean that two of the P-atoms broda? >=20 > Yes, but since we will still want to use the same word in different > contexts for the predicate that is distributive with respect to P and > the related predicate that is not distributive with respect to P (say > "bevri" with respect to "prenu") then we haven't advanced much with > all this. I don't see what you're getting at there. One issue with this approach, though (and maybe this is what you meant, actually?) is that quantification only makes sense when we have an idea of what atoms are relevant. So in {lo broda ro ri brode}, {ri} would have to carry as information not only what Whole which {lo broda} refers to, but also that quantification of it is to be taken with respect to broda-atoms. That's conceptually slightly ugly, and I don't know how intuitive it would be. (Example of use: in the context of people carrying tables, {re lo bevri be su'o jubme cu ci mei .i pa ra verba} would mean that two of the tables are being carried by threesomes, and one of the tables is being carried by a group which consists entirely of children. Assuming {bevri} is distributive in x2 with respect to tables, {lo prenu cu bevri lo jubme} would accurately describe the situation, and {ro lo prenu cu bevri lo jubme} would be false.) Martin --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. 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