From lojban+bncCML0xpmUARDWusTyBBoE-lVnjw@googlegroups.com Sun Aug 21 07:59:52 2011 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qv9V3-0005jZ-4k; Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:59:51 -0700 Received: by fxd2 with SMTP id 2sf6085597fxd.16 for ; Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:59:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=yUI3iyDinqBg8usBqY8RElnOHU1ajVqTo7UHkYjdf3A=; b=j2QGivLNfvacUAbzkAALjjS6CFxjsHQ9IjfgqGCufkw2f75++QPCJMsPvFyNknmcm3 qVmwCbuDp5a8/isasGUdxx2LnMtnatlW5KQiEmSODyktb7RZK4qu/sts5che4RULPUK7 no2mnqc/KTcmFZ5qVDdxLvxu9V3z5TJxasGGI= Received: by 10.223.5.16 with SMTP id 16mr352132fat.25.1313938774973; Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:59:34 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.154.210 with SMTP id p18ls4333104bkw.3.gmail; Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:59:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.133.76 with SMTP id e12mr251219bkt.15.1313938773741; Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:59:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.133.76 with SMTP id e12mr251218bkt.15.1313938773713; Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:59:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f41.google.com (mail-fx0-f41.google.com [209.85.161.41]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q12si1271938fab.3.2011.08.21.07.59.33 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:59:33 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.41 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.41; Received: by fxg9 with SMTP id 9so3935781fxg.14 for ; Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:59:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.54.17 with SMTP id o17mr2250043fag.61.1313938773535; Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:59:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.78.131 with HTTP; Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:59:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:59:33 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] [PROPOSAL] Comparison From: Ian Johnson To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.41 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00151747b008da6b3604ab053550 --00151747b008da6b3604ab053550 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 .i'e sai mu'o mi'e latros On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 6:24 AM, Remo Dentato wrote: > It all started with a question on how to do comparisons and my desire > to support the easy lujvo, but I think there's a decision that should > be made. > > I propose herein to introduce a "standard" way of doing comparison and > superlatives (PLEASE CHECK THE LOJBAN EQUIVALENT): > > -rai traji superlative > rodrai x1 is the most broda among x2 > ko'a traji fo ko'e fe lo ka broda ko'i ko'o > ko'u > > -zma zmadu compartive maj > rodzma x1 is more broda than x2 by x3 > ko'a zmadu ko'e ko'i lo ka broda ko'o ko'u > fo'a ... > > -mau zmadu compartive maj > rodmau x1 is more broda than x2 by x3 > ko'a zmadu ko'e ko'i lo ka broda ko'o ko'u > fo'a ... > > -me'a mleca comparative min > rodme'a x1 is less broda than x2 by x3 > ko'a mleca ko'e ko'i lo ka broda ko'o ko'u > fo'a ... > > -du'i dunli equality > rodydu'i x1 is as broda as x2 > ko'a dunli ko'e lo ka broda ko'i ko'o ko'u > > and, possibly, some other too that happen very commonly: > > -tce mutce much > rodytce x1 broda a lot > ko'a mutce lo ka ko'a broda ko'e ko'i ko'u > > -du'e dukse excesses > rodydu'e x1 broda too much > ko'a dukse lo ka ko'a broda ko'e ko'i ko'o > ko'u > > The benefit would be that all the comparisons would have the same > sumti place and we would maintain the point that Lojban has as few > exceptions as possible. > At the moment there are inconsistency, for example: > > citmau x1=z1=c1 is younger than x=z2 by amount x3=z4. > bramau x1=z1 is bigger than x2=z2 in dimension x3=b2 by margin x4=z4 > mojmau x1=z1 has a better memory than x2=z2 with regards to facts > x3=m2 about subject x4=m3 by amount/excess x5=z4 > > > The amount the one is "more" than the other is x3 for {citmau}, x4 for > {bramau} and x5 for mojmau. > > The downside of my proposal would be that jbovlaste would have to be > fixed (not a big task, though) and some existing text would become > incorrect (!!). For example: > With the current jbovlaste definition {mi nelrai lo plise} -> "I like > apples the most", would the proposal be adopted -> "I (among apples) > like most" > > What do you all think about this? > > remod. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --00151747b008da6b3604ab053550 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable .i'e sai

mu'o mi'e latros

On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 6:24 AM, Remo Dentato <rdentato@gmail.com> wrote:=
It all started with a question on how to do= comparisons and my desire
to support the easy lujvo, but I think there's a decision that should be made.

I propose herein to introduce a "standard" way of doing compariso= n and
superlatives (PLEASE CHECK THE LOJBAN EQUIVALENT):

-rai =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0traji =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 superlative
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0rodrai =A0x1 is the most broda among x2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0ko'a tr= aji fo ko'e fe lo ka broda ko'i ko'o ko'u

-zma =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0zmadu =A0 compartive maj
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0rodzma =A0x1 is more broda than x2 by x3 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0ko'a zm= adu ko'e ko'i lo ka broda ko'o ko'u fo'a ...

-mau =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0zmadu =A0 compartive maj
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0rodmau =A0x1 is more broda than x2 by x3 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0ko'a zm= adu ko'e ko'i lo ka broda ko'o ko'u fo'a ...

-me'a =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 mleca =A0 comparative min
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0rodme'a x1 is less broda than x2 by x3<= br> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0ko'a ml= eca ko'e ko'i lo ka broda ko'o ko'u fo'a ...

-du'i =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 dunli =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 equality
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0rodydu'i =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0x1 is as broda = as x2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0ko'a du= nli ko'e lo ka broda ko'i ko'o ko'u

and, possibly, some other too that happen very commonly:

-tce =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0mutce =A0 much
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0rodytce x1 broda a lot
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0ko'a mu= tce lo ka ko'a broda ko'e ko'i ko'u

-du'e =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 dukse =A0 excesses
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0rodydu'e =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0x1 broda too mu= ch
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0ko'a du= kse lo ka ko'a broda ko'e ko'i ko'o ko'u

The benefit would be that all the comparisons would have the same
sumti place and we would maintain the point that Lojban has as few
exceptions as possible.
At the moment there are inconsistency, for example:

citmau =A0x1=3Dz1=3Dc1 is younger than x=3Dz2 by amount x3=3Dz4.
bramau =A0 =A0 x1=3Dz1 is bigger than x2=3Dz2 in dimension x3=3Db2 by margi= n x4=3Dz4
mojmau =A0x1=3Dz1 has a better memory than x2=3Dz2 with regards to facts x3=3Dm2 about subject x4=3Dm3 by amount/excess x5=3Dz4


The amount the one is "more" than the other is x3 for {citmau}, x= 4 for
{bramau} and x5 for mojmau.

The downside of my proposal would be that jbovlaste would have to be
fixed (not a big task, though) and some existing text would become
incorrect (!!). For example:
With the current jbovlaste definition {mi nelrai lo plise} -> "I li= ke
apples the most", would the proposal be adopted -> "I (among a= pples)
like most"

What do you all think about this?

remod.

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