From lojban+bncCNCCoMTMDhCC6M_yBBoE4UrHkw@googlegroups.com Tue Aug 23 11:40:15 2011 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QvvtT-0005Y2-FX; Tue, 23 Aug 2011 11:40:15 -0700 Received: by gyc15 with SMTP id 15sf431596gyc.16 for ; Tue, 23 Aug 2011 11:40:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=i79NSL13Hbni6XwmOiB3U5Qu04XEFpwfAr1SCjyVb/w=; b=MSNEEQ7kE88Xlzuidf+VHs0cep3VOQCDonHOOlk7vXYefbcHFjfi/JWfu+f1Hpt/Mz iFuZS+LRGpg68n7MuB2epCBE41Yd2CWEufq5RqfXHnzJMbLARb18dGlgaS/Uwxthco7K YSNluS2ifWtqPcXN6NpjG9Msgfpg838jSF+yE= Received: by 10.90.220.4 with SMTP id s4mr917591agg.31.1314124802234; Tue, 23 Aug 2011 11:40:02 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.91.130.14 with SMTP id h14ls27219494agn.6.gmail; Tue, 23 Aug 2011 11:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.191.74 with SMTP id f50mr18382946yhn.1.1314124800260; Tue, 23 Aug 2011 11:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.191.74 with SMTP id f50mr18382941yhn.1.1314124800250; Tue, 23 Aug 2011 11:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pz0-f46.google.com (mail-pz0-f46.google.com [209.85.210.46]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ll18si840920pbb.0.2011.08.23.11.40.00 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 23 Aug 2011 11:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.46 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.46; Received: by mail-pz0-f46.google.com with SMTP id 32so584657pzk.33 for ; Tue, 23 Aug 2011 11:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.177.6 with SMTP id z6mr2083029wfe.263.1314124800112; Tue, 23 Aug 2011 11:40:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.143.78.5 with HTTP; Tue, 23 Aug 2011 11:39:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <17f5d582-ffcb-4959-a779-1dc8f65dc272@en1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> <201108160910.48825.phma@phma.optus.nu> From: Stela Selckiku Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 14:39:30 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Far away To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: selckiku@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.46 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=selckiku@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Luke Bergen wrote= : > > I originally thought that {vi} and friends were just like {ca} such that = {mi > tcidu vi lo tricu} would be understood as "I read [short-distance-from] a > tree" and if I had used {vu} instead it would have been "I read > [long-distance-from] a tree". That's the old standard definition. >=A0A while back though, I was corrected by someone or other that I want {b= u'u} > and friends for that sort of thing and that my original sentence actually= means > something else (what it means I don't remember any more). What it means under the new definition is "I read a short distance from something, and the length of that distance is a tree." Utter nonsense, as trees aren't lengths. This new definition was invented because there's no other convenient way to specify distances, which is a FAQ and useful thing to be able to do. No one uses termsets, so no one taught nintadni to use termsets for it. Someone sometime got the idea-- either accidentally or intentionally-- to repurpose ZI and VA. Because it's so astoundingly useful, it's spread to be perhaps the most common way those tags are used, even though no one bothered to try to make it official or, apparently, to convince la gejyspa. >=A0.ija'ebo I don't use VI/ZI/etc.. any more as tags. =A0How SHOULD I be u= sing > them (given either school of thought that selkik was talking about) {mi kelci vi lo tricu} Old School: I play near a tree. New School: I play near something, and the distance I'm from it is tree. (nonsense) {mi zutse zu'a lo tricu vi lo mitre} Old School: I sit to the left of a tree, a short distance from a meter. (nonsense) New School: I sit one meter to the left of a tree. {mi zutse zu'a vi lo mitre bu'u lo tricu} Old School: I sit a short distance to the left of a meter at a tree. (nonse= nse) New School: I sit to the left one meter from at a tree. (pretty much the same meaning as the last one, but allows you to rearrange the distance and origin) {zu'a vi bu'u lo tricu mi zutse gi'e kelci} Old School and New School: Slightly to the left of a tree, I sit and play. {mi zutse gi'e kelci vau zu'a nu'i lo tricu la'u lo mitre} Old School: I sit and play one meter to the left of a tree. New School: Termsets? What the mabla is that?! .ua nai bu'o cu'i dai mu'omi'e la stela selckiku --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.