From lojban+bncCJbznvHdFRCogPPxBBoEFbvgNQ@googlegroups.com Fri Aug 05 21:17:08 2011 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QpYJg-000266-2h; Fri, 05 Aug 2011 21:17:08 -0700 Received: by wyj26 with SMTP id 26sf4110588wyj.16 for ; Fri, 05 Aug 2011 21:16:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=C3NtcwtsLsyTSCsA0fyRo7KNgb+WN6BsL7OzKJ1q1N8=; b=pgGiRBKvnP8rtaj0zEOiQWFMX+uNu5HNsc6ZpHTFvBj1+ahdhoKoPMtOdYhorTVDrg 2Ss0xlVqTMFnN9fuCx6sssRgmGzkNSbzqnPglCqPr0juVpXd2p/5YD4tLwOJvVcVu3R4 YMQ4uSJbjrnM1xrZYb7Cle70OVClvGcyabwck= Received: by 10.217.6.136 with SMTP id y8mr1037867wes.27.1312604200522; Fri, 05 Aug 2011 21:16:40 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.24.77 with SMTP id w53ls228041eew.3.canary; Fri, 05 Aug 2011 21:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.105.203 with SMTP id u11mr99703ebo.18.1312604199378; Fri, 05 Aug 2011 21:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.105.203 with SMTP id u11mr99702ebo.18.1312604199339; Fri, 05 Aug 2011 21:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f48.google.com (mail-fx0-f48.google.com [209.85.161.48]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w1si149257fag.1.2011.08.05.21.16.39 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 05 Aug 2011 21:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.48 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.48; Received: by mail-fx0-f48.google.com with SMTP id 7so2132308fxg.35 for ; Fri, 05 Aug 2011 21:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.98.83 with SMTP id p19mr3975654fan.2.1312604199107; Fri, 05 Aug 2011 21:16:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.72.11 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 21:16:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: MorphemeAddict Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 00:16:18 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Klingon proverbs in Lojban To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lytlesw@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.48 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lytlesw@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174bef4604bc0304a9ce7b52 --0015174bef4604bc0304a9ce7b52 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Okay, that makes sense. I didn't think of {ca lo nu ...}. Is there a difference in meaning, or is it 'just' a structural difference? It seems like the difference between, e.g., "during their dying", vs. "while they're dying". stevo On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > since po'o is a UI it modifies the preceding word so wouldn't you want {lo > bebna po'o cu cmila ca [lo?] nu lo damba cu mrobi'o}? > > > On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 3:08 PM, MorphemeAddict wrote: > >> I've been using "fa" to imitate the OVS structure of Klingon, but I think >> it's better to use an unmarked form of Lojban instead. >> >> po'o lo bebna cu cmila ca nu lo damba cu mrobi'o >> >> stevo >> >> On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 2:33 PM, MorphemeAddict wrote: >> >>> Hagh qoHpu' neH HeghtaHvIS SuvwI'pu' >>> Only fools laugh while warriors die. >>> >>> cmila fa po'o lo bebna ca nu mrobi'o fa lo damba >>> >>> stevo >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 10:16 PM, MorphemeAddict wrote: >>> >>>> No, none of those is a replacement proverb. >>>> In Klingon circles, a 'replacement proverb' (qa'meH vIttlhegh) is >>>> uttered by a person immediately after he feels he has lost honor, e.g., by >>>> committing a gaff in public, and thus attempts to regain his honor. >>>> >>>> Examples from "Power Klingon", an audio cassette by Marc Okrand, >>>> include: >>>> >>>> DopDaq qul yIchenmoH QobDI' ghu' >>>> Set fire on the side when there is danger. >>>> >>>> reH Suvrup SuvwI''a' >>>> A great warrior is always prepared. >>>> >>>> Hagh qoHpu' neH HeghtaHvIS SuvwI'pu' >>>> Only fools laugh while warriors die. >>>> >>>> HIvqa' veqlargh >>>> The Fek'lhr strikes again. >>>> >>>> The replacement proverbs are basically interchangeable; any one can be >>>> used on any occasion when it is felt necessary. The literal meanings are >>>> also completely irrelevant. Replacement proverbs are similar to apologies in >>>> other cultures. >>>> >>>> stevo >>>> (aka lay'tel SIvten) >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: >>>> >>>>> hmm, I assume that by "Klingong replacement proverbs" you mean (for >>>>> example) some of the entires here: >>>>> http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Klingon_proverbs >>>>> >>>>> lo ba'e bajra nanmu cu kakne lo nu ka'argau lo voki'o galxe ze'i lo pa >>>>> nicte >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 1:18 PM, MorphemeAddict wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Just a thought. >>>>>> Translate Klingon replacement proverbs into Lojban. >>>>>> >>>>>> Curiouser and curiouser. >>>>>> >>>>>> stevo >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0015174bef4604bc0304a9ce7b52 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Okay, that makes sense. I didn't think of {ca lo nu ...}. Is there= a difference in meaning, or is it 'just' a structural difference? = It seems like the difference between, e.g., "during their dying",= vs. "while they're dying".
=A0
stevo

On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmai= l.com> wrote:
since po'o is a UI it modifi= es the preceding word so wouldn't you want {lo bebna po'o cu cmila = ca [lo?] nu lo damba cu mrobi'o}?=20


On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 3:08 PM, MorphemeAddict <= span dir=3D"ltr"><lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:
I've been using "fa" to imitate the OVS structure of Kli= ngon, but I think it's better to use an unmarked form of Lojban instead= .
=A0
po'o lo bebna cu cmila ca nu lo damba cu mrobi'o
=A0
stevo

On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 2:33 PM, MorphemeAddict <= span dir=3D"ltr"><lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:
Hagh qoHpu' neH HeghtaHvIS Su= vwI'pu'
Only fools laugh while warriors d= ie.

cmila fa po'o lo bebna ca nu mrobi'o fa lo damba
=A0
stevo

On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 10:16 PM, MorphemeAddict = <lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:
No, none of those is a replacement proverb.
In Klingon circles, a 'replacement proverb' (qa'meH vIttlh= egh) is uttered by a person immediately after he feels he has lost honor, e= .g., by committing a gaff in public, and thus attempts to regain his honor.=
=A0
Examples from "Power Klingon", an audio cassette by Marc Okr= and, include:
=A0
DopDaq qul yIchenmoH QobDI' g= hu'
Set fire on the side when there i= s danger.
=A0
reH Suvrup SuvwI''a' =
A great warrior is always prepare= d.
=A0
Hagh qoHpu' neH HeghtaHvIS Su= vwI'pu'
Only fools laugh while warriors d= ie.

HIvqa' veqlargh
= The Fek'lhr strikes again.
=A0
The replacement proverbs are basically interchangeable; any one can be= used on any occasion when it is felt necessary. The literal meanings are a= lso completely irrelevant. Replacement proverbs are similar to apologies in= other cultures.
=A0
stevo
(aka lay'tel SIvten)

=A0
On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
hmm, I assume that by "Klin= gong replacement proverbs" you mean (for example) some of the entires = here:=A0http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Klingon_proverbs=20

lo ba'e bajra nanmu cu kakne lo nu ka'argau lo voki'o galx= e=A0ze'i lo pa nicte


On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 1:18 PM, MorphemeAddict <<= a href=3D"mailto:lytlesw@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">lytlesw@gmail.com= > wrote:
Just a thought.
Translate Klingon replacement proverbs into Lojban.
=A0
Curiouser and curiouser.
=A0
stevo

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