From lojban+bncCIycn8S8DhDWq4DyBBoEJ4l5Jg@googlegroups.com Mon Aug 08 09:59:20 2011 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QqTAX-0002uO-Hq; Mon, 08 Aug 2011 09:59:19 -0700 Received: by yxk8 with SMTP id 8sf6051783yxk.16 for ; Mon, 08 Aug 2011 09:59:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=uYWEZOeXT0RGFXTASFcrHkLasxzOHDwkvqCgtVAofl8=; b=jOkMyvQpX2HNuZQxw2sPwSiH7DJcTtCBCRstDIDCK6W/JAjWJ+Rx8JdcDNfhk+fgxf lsvU1BDzPxTfiNFR5xQBPPvoe0esZswhOjoDGmdRRfgG6AJ3Y30IuYleJZLeqtOZETQc J8yw6JAjl9FStVeaTKAIW1jXBZ3jx6394EQwI= Received: by 10.150.230.21 with SMTP id c21mr224986ybh.25.1312822742762; Mon, 08 Aug 2011 09:59:02 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.77.5 with SMTP id e5ls3422948ibk.0.gmail; Mon, 08 Aug 2011 09:59:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.42.127.84 with SMTP id h20mr3651768ics.88.1312822741225; Mon, 08 Aug 2011 09:59:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.42.127.84 with SMTP id h20mr3651767ics.88.1312822741213; Mon, 08 Aug 2011 09:59:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pz0-f44.google.com (mail-pz0-f44.google.com [209.85.210.44]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l1si30933541pbi.0.2011.08.08.09.59.00 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 08 Aug 2011 09:59:00 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.44 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.44; Received: by mail-pz0-f44.google.com with SMTP id 36so2991806pzk.17 for ; Mon, 08 Aug 2011 09:59:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.112.15 with SMTP id k15mr5981419wfc.386.1312822740023; Mon, 08 Aug 2011 09:59:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.42.163 with HTTP; Mon, 8 Aug 2011 09:58:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201108060806.15064.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 12:58:59 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Klingon proverbs in Lojban From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.44 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636ed62a1127b0204aa015d87 --001636ed62a1127b0204aa015d87 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 2:55 PM, MorphemeAddict wrote: > Here are the definitions of PU that I have: > ba =3D after time tense relation/direction: will [selbri]; after [sumti]; > default future tense > ca =3D during time tense relation/direction: is [selbri]; during / > simultaneous with [sumti]; present tense > pu =3D before time tense relation/direction: did [selbri]; before/prior t= o > [sumti]; default past tense > > Each can be used with either a selbri or a sumti. I don't know if they ca= n > be used without either: {mi ca gleki} (with selbri) vs. {mi gleki ca} (wi= th > neither selbri nor sumti). With sumti: {mi gleki ca lo nu do zvati ti}. > > Yes, but you used it in the MIDDLE of the selbri "smila nu", where it may not go. --gejyspa > stevo > > On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 8:06 AM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > >> On Saturday 06 August 2011 00:29:31 MorphemeAddict wrote: >> > If one can say {mi ca cmila}, then {mi ca nu cmila} should also be >> > grammatical, even if it doesn't make a lot of sense. I thought TAGs >> could >> > be put just about anywhere, and that they don't have any >> > requirements/arguments/expectations. >> >> "mi cmila nu damba" is grammatical, but "mi cmila ca nu damba" is not. Y= ou >> can't have a tense marker on the second part of a tanru. >> > > Is there a TAG here somewhere? I don't see one. Or I don't remember what = a > TAG is. > > stevo > >> >> Pierre >> -- >> La sal en el mar es m=E1s que en la sangre. >> Le sel dans la mer est plus que dans le sang. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --001636ed62a1127b0204aa015d87 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 2:55 PM, MorphemeAddict <= span dir=3D"ltr"><lytlesw@gmail.com= > wrote:
Here are the definitions of PU that I have:
ba =3D after time tense relation/direction: will [selbri]; after [sumt= i]; default future tense
ca =3D during time tense relation/direction: is [selbri]; during / sim= ultaneous with [sumti]; present tense
pu =3D before time tense relation/direction: did [selbri]; before/prio= r to [sumti]; default past tense
=A0
Each can be used with either a selbri=A0or a sumti. I don't know i= f they can be used without either: {mi ca gleki} (with selbri) vs. {mi glek= i ca} (with neither selbri nor sumti). With sumti: {mi gleki ca lo nu do zv= ati ti}.

=A0
=A0
=A0 Yes, but you used it in the MIDDLE of the selbri "smila nu&qu= ot;, where it may not go.
=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa=
=A0
=A0
stevo
=A0
On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 8:06 AM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma= .optus.nu> wrote:
On Saturday 06 August 2011 00:29:31 MorphemeAddict wrote:
> If o= ne can say {mi ca cmila}, then {mi ca nu cmila} should also be
> gram= matical, even if it doesn't make a lot of sense. I thought TAGs could > be put just about anywhere, and that they don't have any
> r= equirements/arguments/expectations.

"mi cmila nu damba&qu= ot; is grammatical, but "mi cmila ca nu damba" is not. You
can't have a tense marker on the second part of a tanru.
=A0
Is there a TAG here somewhere? I don't see one. Or I don't rem= ember what a TAG is.
=A0
stevo

Pierre
--
La sal en el mar es m=E1s que en la sangre.
Le = sel dans la mer est plus que dans le sang.

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