From lojban+bncCJbznvHdFRDc2YDyBBoESPz5xQ@googlegroups.com Mon Aug 08 11:37:34 2011 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QqUhc-0001IP-Jv; Mon, 08 Aug 2011 11:37:33 -0700 Received: by fxd2 with SMTP id 2sf4082667fxd.16 for ; Mon, 08 Aug 2011 11:37:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Ka+dUA8PISHSfWigJ9uPAR9yfB1pLBZrZki5Uj+uOxo=; b=1cEdZKImgMgeSWuku/Ou7SKnrM/QxZkvEDw38EAnfxdvsjYzv1RmlkxWJd8uUC18QR cQPsKrwSqrd1lXJ3eNJ0AaxC2wwvyibT7/qsItuxGbERamzicjoy0yE7m/Sqkqu1SEW2 CalPEsWiSxK3T9zZ6vbbmSLO8+HIba+L1COzM= Received: by 10.223.41.143 with SMTP id o15mr1394739fae.11.1312828636890; Mon, 08 Aug 2011 11:37:16 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.10.38 with SMTP id 38ls213619eeu.0.gmail; Mon, 08 Aug 2011 11:37:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.10.200 with SMTP id q8mr122399ebq.21.1312828635392; Mon, 08 Aug 2011 11:37:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.10.200 with SMTP id q8mr122398ebq.21.1312828635339; Mon, 08 Aug 2011 11:37:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f50.google.com (mail-fx0-f50.google.com [209.85.161.50]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w1si1005957fag.1.2011.08.08.11.37.15 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 08 Aug 2011 11:37:15 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.50 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.50; Received: by mail-fx0-f50.google.com with SMTP id 2so5970819fxh.23 for ; Mon, 08 Aug 2011 11:37:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.55.203 with SMTP id v11mr3730306fag.78.1312828635100; Mon, 08 Aug 2011 11:37:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.87.11 with HTTP; Mon, 8 Aug 2011 11:36:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201108060806.15064.phma@phma.optus.nu> From: MorphemeAddict Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 14:36:55 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Klingon proverbs in Lojban To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lytlesw@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.50 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lytlesw@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174760fa7236f004aa02bc45 --0015174760fa7236f004aa02bc45 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > > > On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 2:55 PM, MorphemeAddict wrote= : > >> Here are the definitions of PU that I have: >> ba =3D after time tense relation/direction: will [selbri]; after [sumti]= ; >> default future tense >> ca =3D during time tense relation/direction: is [selbri]; during / >> simultaneous with [sumti]; present tense >> pu =3D before time tense relation/direction: did [selbri]; before/prior = to >> [sumti]; default past tense >> >> Each can be used with either a selbri or a sumti. I don't know if they c= an >> be used without either: {mi ca gleki} (with selbri) vs. {mi gleki ca} (w= ith >> neither selbri nor sumti). With sumti: {mi gleki ca lo nu do zvati ti}. >> >> > > Yes, but you used it in the MIDDLE of the selbri "smila nu", where it m= ay > not go. > {smila [sic: cmila] nu} is a selbri? I thought {nu} was part of the following structure, which in {smila nu} is missing. stevo > > --gejyspa > > > >> stevo >> >> On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 8:06 AM, Pierre Abbat wrote= : >> >>> On Saturday 06 August 2011 00:29:31 MorphemeAddict wrote: >>> > If one can say {mi ca cmila}, then {mi ca nu cmila} should also be >>> > grammatical, even if it doesn't make a lot of sense. I thought TAGs >>> could >>> > be put just about anywhere, and that they don't have any >>> > requirements/arguments/expectations. >>> >>> "mi cmila nu damba" is grammatical, but "mi cmila ca nu damba" is not. >>> You >>> can't have a tense marker on the second part of a tanru. >>> >> >> Is there a TAG here somewhere? I don't see one. Or I don't remember what= a >> TAG is. >> >> stevo >> >>> >>> Pierre >>> -- >>> La sal en el mar es m=E1s que en la sangre. >>> Le sel dans la mer est plus que dans le sang. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >>> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --0015174760fa7236f004aa02bc45 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Michael Turnian= sky <mturnian= sky@gmail.com> wrote:


On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 2:55 PM, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw= @gmail.com> wrote:
Here are the definitions of PU that I have:
ba =3D after time tense relation/direction: will [selbri]; after [sumt= i]; default future tense
ca =3D during time tense relation/direction: is [selbri]; during / sim= ultaneous with [sumti]; present tense
pu =3D before time tense relation/direction: did [selbri]; before/prio= r to [sumti]; default past tense
=A0
Each can be used with either a selbri=A0or a sumti. I don't know i= f they can be used without either: {mi ca gleki} (with selbri) vs. {mi glek= i ca} (with neither selbri nor sumti). With sumti: {mi gleki ca lo nu do zv= ati ti}.

=A0
=A0
=A0 Yes, but you used it in the MIDDLE of the selbri "smila nu&qu= ot;, where it may not go.
=A0
{smila [sic: cmila] nu} is a selbri? I thought {nu} was part of the fo= llowing structure, which in {smila nu} is missing.
=A0
stevo
=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa=
=A0
=A0
stevo
=A0
On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 8:06 AM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu= > wrote:
On Saturday 06 August 2011 00:29:31 MorphemeAddict wrote:
> If o= ne can say {mi ca cmila}, then {mi ca nu cmila} should also be
> gram= matical, even if it doesn't make a lot of sense. I thought TAGs could > be put just about anywhere, and that they don't have any
> r= equirements/arguments/expectations.

"mi cmila nu damba&qu= ot; is grammatical, but "mi cmila ca nu damba" is not. You
can't have a tense marker on the second part of a tanru.
=A0
Is there a TAG here somewhere? I don't see one. Or I don't rem= ember what a TAG is.
=A0
stevo

Pierre
--
La sal en el mar es m=E1s que en la sangre.
Le = sel dans la mer est plus que dans le sang.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups= .com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.= com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to t= he Google Groups "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send e= mail to lojban= @googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.= com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to t= he Google Groups "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send e= mail to lojban= @googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.= com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
--0015174760fa7236f004aa02bc45--