From lojban+bncCNf8pM-bDBCMzJ7yBBoEKoeNsg@googlegroups.com Sun Aug 14 03:40:26 2011 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QsY7C-0002Wx-Tz; Sun, 14 Aug 2011 03:40:26 -0700 Received: by vwe42 with SMTP id 42sf1741179vwe.16 for ; Sun, 14 Aug 2011 03:40:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=eQuQddKUPfTwl2RkFylWnTVhN4ZuoYN7I9M6Mh/EFUk=; b=FSRVnlXCOsg28KqFu8op8lJZeIj9OfdJGE+pYun5l4TCnVWBOqqOqbxM00n6LtGoTL /pmsdXHAEwSi5oS3ppLmnN7+5g7bVBOxLYs0w+z/HJK9m9R06M8Lvwfov5yGnlsTkble 2MBu+YuiRMExlAIIYA62JfuvTGG9jn3satcnw= Received: by 10.220.191.74 with SMTP id dl10mr362968vcb.55.1313318412295; Sun, 14 Aug 2011 03:40:12 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.52.73.194 with SMTP id n2ls4139643vdv.2.gmail; Sun, 14 Aug 2011 03:40:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.108.233 with SMTP id hn9mr1013124vdb.17.1313318411713; Sun, 14 Aug 2011 03:40:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.108.233 with SMTP id hn9mr1013123vdb.17.1313318411705; Sun, 14 Aug 2011 03:40:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qw0-f44.google.com (mail-qw0-f44.google.com [209.85.216.44]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id bh5si6439830vdc.3.2011.08.14.03.40.11 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 14 Aug 2011 03:40:11 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of paskios@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.44 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.44; Received: by qwc23 with SMTP id 23so2791617qwc.31 for ; Sun, 14 Aug 2011 03:40:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.66.222 with SMTP id o30mr1812936qci.189.1313318411397; Sun, 14 Aug 2011 03:40:11 -0700 (PDT) Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.227.149 with HTTP; Sun, 14 Aug 2011 03:40:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 11:40:11 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] "gi" in place of "zi'e" From: tijlan To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: paskios@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of paskios@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.44 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=paskios@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Multiple relative clauses (NOI) / phrases (GOI) can be joined up, officially by "zi'e": da poi [ broda ] zi'e noi [ brode ] da poi [ broda ] zi'e pe [ de ] I wonder if "gi" could substitute for that joiner: da poi [ broda ] gi noi [ brode ] da poi [ broda ] gi pe [ de ] We would then have to consider if there is any possible syntactical conflicts with the conventional forethought usages of "gi": ge < da poi [ broda ] gi noi [ brode ] > gi < zo'e > ge < da poi [ broda ] gi pe [ de ] > gi < zo'e > ge < da poi [ broda ] gi noi [ brode ] cu brodi > gi < co'e > ge < da poi [ broda ] gi pe [ de ] cu brodi > gi < co'e > joi gi < da poi [ broda ] gi noi [ brode ] > gi < zo'e > joi gi < da poi [ broda ] gi pe [ de ] > gi < zo'e > joi gi < da poi [ broda ] gi noi [ brode ] cu brodi > gi < co'e > joi gi < da poi [ broda] gi pe [ de ] cu brodi > gi < co'e > I feel as though the role of "gi" in "gi NOI/GOI" would always be unambiguous; it could not be interpreted to be doing anything other than joining the following unit to the last unit of the same indicated type. In other words, "gi NOI/GOI" would entail another NOI/GOI before it: ... gi NOI/GOI [ clause/phrase ] --> NOI/GOI [ clause/phrase ] gi NOI/GOI [ clause/phrase ] A somewhat similar and more noted case is that of JA/JOI being technically capable of substituting for the A connectives: [ da poi broda ] .e [ de ] = [ da poi broda ] je [ de ] [ da poi broda ] .e [ lo brode ] = [ da poi broda ] je [ lo brode ] This substitution is theoretically possible because such connectives followed by a bare sumti or a gadri cannot be interpreted to be doing anything other than joining the following unit to the last unit of the same type, namely sumti: ... JA/JOI [ sumti ] --> [ sumti ] JA/JOI [ sumti ] "gi" already works similarly according to its surroundings; its role varies depending on what comes to which of its side. BPFK defines "gi" varyingly as: - Separates the first from the second clause in a general FLC [forethought logical connective] construct. - Converts a non-logical connective into a coordinating conjunction. http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Logical+Connectives#cmavo:_gi_GI_ And I suspect there might be even more to this cmavo than that. mu'o -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.