From lojban+bncCNTPpI2KGxDH6p7yBBoE4s7jqg@googlegroups.com Sun Aug 14 04:45:25 2011 Received: from mail-vx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.220.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QsZ86-00067v-1d; Sun, 14 Aug 2011 04:45:24 -0700 Received: by vxh2 with SMTP id 2sf2679248vxh.16 for ; Sun, 14 Aug 2011 04:45:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; bh=O0kZMNvOwtgUReOkvPMXTw75JAEA8GKO65Ab44OSTAY=; b=sCfnoSTQooZeWj5d5OfRfuzc3SwuKgK195wP3S6/4YyrSLmC5F26HZvu6H2LBrRy1v JHTdtwow1VirSsgJ3ra49NKyk2UGsM9cX61b716Yq6hYtpW0MFqJef7mXMGLZY4l6Heg t7hT55VAwh0Qd3JyGXkfwXcVpSZligU+G/AFs= Received: by 10.220.185.67 with SMTP id cn3mr375794vcb.17.1313322311741; Sun, 14 Aug 2011 04:45:11 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.52.73.194 with SMTP id n2ls4178507vdv.2.gmail; Sun, 14 Aug 2011 04:45:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.95.50 with SMTP id dh18mr1202319vdb.25.1313322311152; Sun, 14 Aug 2011 04:45:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.95.50 with SMTP id dh18mr1202318vdb.25.1313322311142; Sun, 14 Aug 2011 04:45:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.123]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id bv16si6502074vdc.1.2011.08.14.04.45.09; Sun, 14 Aug 2011 04:45:09 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.123 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=75.180.132.123; X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=SOlsIBN44tkg4MqIq+y2aLZdhoA3kHpmiRsLue6rfnM= c=1 sm=0 a=6ti_TD8eFm8A:10 a=j6xCi1gAwmUA:10 a=wPDyFdB5xvgA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:17 a=dy4COlvtyJDedOGX0gAA:9 a=42THIIsyVmwS-rTI_woA:7 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 75.176.118.168 Received: from [75.176.118.168] ([75.176.118.168:50143] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id E1/59-15242-545B74E4; Sun, 14 Aug 2011 11:45:09 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13EE01D29F for ; Sun, 14 Aug 2011 07:45:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] "gi" in place of "zi'e" Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 07:45:01 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201108140745.04360.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.123 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline On Sunday 14 August 2011 06:40:11 tijlan wrote: > Multiple relative clauses (NOI) / phrases (GOI) can be joined up, > officially by "zi'e": > > da poi [ broda ] zi'e noi [ brode ] > da poi [ broda ] zi'e pe [ de ] > > I wonder if "gi" could substitute for that joiner: > > da poi [ broda ] gi noi [ brode ] > da poi [ broda ] gi pe [ de ] Semantically, this doesn't make sense. "zi'e" is a logical and of the zihek class; there is no logical or, nxor, one-side-irrelevant, or question in the class. "zi'o" is occupied by a pseudo-pronoun that deletes a place; the others are available. I think that they should be allocated to conjunctions, and for the nxor conjunction we can use "zi'oi". Then we need a word so that non-logical conjunctions can be used with relative clauses. On the other hand, "zi'e" was coined before we started using PEG. It's likely that the word was deemed necessary because of the limitations of LALR1. PEG has no problem seeing that "noi" or "pe" follows, so one of the other classes of conjunctions should be usable in PEG. In LALR1 we could try requiring that the first relative clause or phrase be terminated, just as article phrases need to be terminated with "ku" before JOI. Pierre -- li ze te'a ci vu'u ci bi'e te'a mu du li ci su'i ze te'a mu bi'e vu'u ci -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.