From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRD056DzBBoEEvspVQ@googlegroups.com Wed Sep 07 20:18:24 2011 Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1R1V88-0001gn-Hl; Wed, 07 Sep 2011 20:18:23 -0700 Received: by qwh5 with SMTP id 5sf347780qwh.16 for ; Wed, 07 Sep 2011 20:18:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=VF4pUKkkknn+GZwt4N7W3CpH6aPijlB9/QMdGOo0QSE=; b=Z5ThKlL7t2lUXvJy+dqA8eKumW/9a2YTRNgIWj5T+ODscUtnFKNtTJzhWBDS31m38E iLmJv2MEbSCYfQ4atnhyY80Tra4iHJjT017Vp2Cm1RqSTzl6GGGosoKptSCoRoWfRBwi AOECeDwqcPLW5RNDHixfqfm5/NlOCftSJJi94= Received: by 10.224.217.199 with SMTP id hn7mr6753qab.27.1315451892368; Wed, 07 Sep 2011 20:18:12 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.196.134 with SMTP id eg6ls4380200qab.6.gmail; Wed, 07 Sep 2011 20:18:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.31.5 with SMTP id w5mr177213qac.1.1315451891828; Wed, 07 Sep 2011 20:18:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.31.5 with SMTP id w5mr177212qac.1.1315451891819; Wed, 07 Sep 2011 20:18:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vx0-f177.google.com (mail-vx0-f177.google.com [209.85.220.177]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m27si1413464qcz.2.2011.09.07.20.18.11 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 07 Sep 2011 20:18:11 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.177 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.177; Received: by mail-vx0-f177.google.com with SMTP id 2so394126vxj.22 for ; Wed, 07 Sep 2011 20:18:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.156.45 with SMTP id wb13mr163355vdb.245.1315451891615; Wed, 07 Sep 2011 20:18:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.163.133 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Sep 2011 20:18:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201109072248.41429.phma@phma.optus.nu> References: <0016e6d3878a9d815804ac578789@google.com> <201109071512.38841.phma@phma.optus.nu> <201109072248.41429.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 00:18:11 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] tosmabru test From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.177 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 11:48 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Wednesday 07 September 2011 20:11:51 Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: >> The test to determine whether a given string is a valid fu'ivla or not >> is not that complicated: >> >> (1) check that it doesn't violate phonotactics (i.e. it doesn't >> contain any impermissible clusters). >> >> (2) check that its only stressed syllable is the penultimate one, that >> it ends in a vowel and that it does not contain any "y". >> >> (3) check that it doesn't consist of a string of rafsi, and that >> adding CV in front of it does not turn it into a string of rafsi. >> >> (4) check that if you remove one or more cmavo forms from the left, >> you don't end up with nothing, a gismu, a lujvo or something that >> passes (1), (2) and (3). > > All brivla have to have their second consonant either in a cluster or fol= lowed > by "y" and a consonant. Is this implied by the four rules? Yes, it is. Rule (4) won't allow more than a single C before a cluster is f= ound. > What > about "soiombo" and "peuence"? I read them as "so iombo" and "pa uence", as I don't require a glottal stop before semi-vowel i/u. But this is a phonotactics issue, and we know we are not in full agreement about phonotactics. "soiombo" cannot break as "soi .ombo" because there's no glottal stop there= . > Do you consider "aierne" or "a'ierne" or "ai'erne" valid? "aierne" breaks as "a ierne". "a'ierne" violates phonotactics, because I require the apostrophe to be followed by a full vowel (a semi-vowel won't do). "ai'erne" is (currently) fine, although I have gone back and forth in trying to decide whether or not the apostrophe should be allowed after a diphthong. I think it's cleaner to keep it between vowels, as in ordinary words. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.