From lojban+bncCN673cmqFBCqq6_zBBoE2C5zgA@googlegroups.com Sat Sep 10 14:25:09 2011 Received: from mail-gx0-f186.google.com ([209.85.161.186]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1R2V2x-0005d9-0I; Sat, 10 Sep 2011 14:25:09 -0700 Received: by gxk1 with SMTP id 1sf2601829gxk.13 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2011 14:25:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-ct-class:x-ct-score:x-ct-refid:x-ct-spam :x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score:message-id:date:from:organization :user-agent:x-accept-language:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=EmvAVCfm6atQ5hwwgcf3kyK9Vl33Y9axsqa5pA3/dQ4=; b=gCMLH0mFScZ/UACk74QUD815TlCpag05MLmhF2rsFdZao9N8AyzBtlc7ZKp6YK2thy N3G8jgetoSn0PJ5YzFKZ9A2Q3cuNqrfiKMvkHdZ6rhFv0XIAgMIrg2clrTEOZjVsDr6J Wf0QIpPd89FVEFRob4FvUuteaq29BeNZYQjJ4= Received: by 10.101.73.19 with SMTP id a19mr519249anl.5.1315689898842; Sat, 10 Sep 2011 14:24:58 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.181.21 with SMTP id i21ls13571080anp.4.gmail; Sat, 10 Sep 2011 14:24:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.193.7 with SMTP id v7mr2980572anp.4.1315689892592; Sat, 10 Sep 2011 14:24:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.193.7 with SMTP id v7mr2980571anp.4.1315689892577; Sat, 10 Sep 2011 14:24:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eastrmfepo102.cox.net (eastrmfepo102.cox.net [68.230.241.214]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id r37si4624470anh.0.2011.09.10.14.24.51; Sat, 10 Sep 2011 14:24:51 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 68.230.241.214 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) client-ip=68.230.241.214; Received: from eastrmimpo109.cox.net ([68.230.241.222]) by eastrmfepo102.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.04.00 201-2260-137-20101110) with ESMTP id <20110910212451.RFAE3919.eastrmfepo102.cox.net@eastrmimpo109.cox.net> for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2011 17:24:51 -0400 Received: from [192.168.0.100] ([172.18.52.4]) by eastrmimpo109.cox.net with bizsmtp id X9Qn1h00L05SVJc029QnCQ; Sat, 10 Sep 2011 17:24:50 -0400 X-CT-Class: Clean X-CT-Score: 0.00 X-CT-RefID: str=0001.0A020202.4E6BD5A3.0009,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-CT-Spam: 0 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=Zx9uHhPf9A+lP7fUsMkPKK1lMswgbRqMQRNZi8vDats= c=1 sm=1 a=dYDkaTZZu5wA:10 a=xmHE3fpoGJwA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=8YJikuA2AAAA:8 a=mbwfzdwbQKFT_AffszYA:9 a=lSLiD4eIxhhAHVEyfLoA:7 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=dxBpO5_FDU0A:10 a=UaX1woSWE4/tG05bAFg+xw==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <4E6BD617.5070703@lojban.org> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 17:26:47 -0400 From: "Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG" Organization: The Logical Language Group, Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] fu'ivla References: In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 68.230.241.214 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) smtp.mail=lojbab@lojban.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: > On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 8:10 AM, Remo Dentato wrote: >=20 >>I've noticed that camxes allows any number of wovels and {'} before >>the consonant cluster that each brivla must have. >> >>For example: {a'e'o'u'i'ailto} >> >>The CLL rule was that each brivla had to have a consonante cluster >>within the first five letters, not counting {y} and {'}, has this >>changed for fuhivla? >=20 >=20 > Yes, I purposely dropped that requirement when writing the PEG > morphology, since it was arbitrary and not needed for anything. > There's no reason to allow ".a'a'alto" but forbid "pa'a'alto" due to > some strange counting of letters rule. >=20 > It was observed that in all lujvo and gismu there is a consonant > cluster within the first five letters, and someone thought it was a > good idea to impose this as a rule for all brivla, but since this is > not something that is required to define lujvo or gismu, nor is it > needed to make the parsing of fu'ivla unambiguous, it is a pointless > rule. Pointless if you are a computer perhaps. If you are a human being, given that human beings read focusing on the=20 starting and ending of words, being able to classify the word as a=20 brivla and not a compound cmavo written as one word (like "lenu")=20 without having to exercise a complex algorithm, is a virtue. I see no reason to support a change relaxing the rule, until/unless=20 someone points out an actual advantage to it as opposed to allowing=20 anything that isn't impossible to disambiguate. Put more strongly, I'd like even tighter restrictions on fu'ivla space=20 to make them more easily recognizable as a distinct word class, but our=20 attempts to come up with simple and reasonable rules came to nought (I=20 will still only use rafsi-headed fu'ivla when I write for the indefinite=20 future, because that was the one simple rule that seemed to be human=20 processible at reading speed). lojbab --=20 Bob LeChevalier lojbab@lojban.org www.lojban.org President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.