From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRDb54PzBBoEC6mo3g@googlegroups.com Fri Sep 02 08:19:02 2011
Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61])
	by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRDb54PzBBoEC6mo3g@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1QzVWE-0001nB-TG; Fri, 02 Sep 2011 08:19:02 -0700
Received: by ywa6 with SMTP id 6sf2522473ywa.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Fri, 02 Sep 2011 08:18:52 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-newman-property:x-yahoo-newman-id
         :x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references:message-id:date:from:subject:to
         :in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=UYH8PawQlwo7t7bnQtj2/6Hl3XDWZ2zHM8pKLTdAX3M=;
        b=T8894nZ/bg7AKhgVyK8tA3U5gxE3s/7OVVb+ujUnTi/n5ku49nuCHmJeiNJDf/ihyp
         GTrgCtF0ZxA1dQI1dN8DOIKz/ygL4CRa/2ieeBA/48qaK+lb/G5SIqdihwV2M+pnJDmd
         F2TQit2U4typqBdnF4HjtOzPWO+XfS9urZW8c=
Received: by 10.151.89.35 with SMTP id r35mr177624ybl.33.1314976731237;
        Fri, 02 Sep 2011 08:18:51 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.101.171.12 with SMTP id y12ls3467110ano.2.gmail; Fri, 02 Sep
 2011 08:18:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.100.82.1 with SMTP id f1mr1083310anb.13.1314976730639;
        Fri, 02 Sep 2011 08:18:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.100.82.1 with SMTP id f1mr1083309anb.13.1314976730605;
        Fri, 02 Sep 2011 08:18:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from nm19-vm1.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com (nm19-vm1.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.94.236.26])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id v10si1802652anq.2.2011.09.02.08.18.50;
        Fri, 02 Sep 2011 08:18:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.236.26 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.94.236.26;
Received: from [66.94.237.199] by nm19.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2011 15:18:50 -0000
Received: from [66.94.237.113] by tm10.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2011 15:18:50 -0000
Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1018.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2011 15:18:50 -0000
X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-5
X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 304324.41249.bm@omp1018.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com
Received: (qmail 13021 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Sep 2011 15:18:50 -0000
X-YMail-OSG: DCddznkVM1kDmEowYVbLpqtY.7Atnbu.3CyO2MDfgBcs_Fx
 uYk4FtwPeLCGHz907Za28Wni2UU_avBofA_FnzGrsHe1Qjv0AO_lwL3F9486
 88WmuS6ATtjYOxEpNnxSGv7uUc2rpKMu4TiP0U6AA.8sC5hiv8rjtFz5hHNg
 A8hKEQOhNH2oKdnEw_yQk7zGRCAogbFVtHnreTHb3Iz2KUJkPeXz2..B5OgN
 9zcrYQODFp_SN_OObNaIFpD3n0Y5mXc.KjOQgUJP.mlDbBdQ3_Qmj_BeWDPg
 G2htQbKCEgwasfNRWAMpqNFrpGSDU.X0q0govMMzmLViQOQ9j4vrtEi.gYin
 fMECZT1cb4zXGlBd1Sh9_7n.aFnsClTfa8xZO82L9BhrhEcdv1DUyFr7.KNO
 BZj51cCQuRXeMQKvwnC3rKpVwhKuHyuIDicRWbskvjpfSurz.43ch1Pw_HOz
 kGmKsevipkFFDZ31aVro5tIUJoV01TdC1iCkBM2eu5xp0FmTUh3dLB187jT6
 VH.MsQc8BA41o
Received: from [99.92.108.41] by web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 02 Sep 2011 08:18:49 PDT
X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/574 YahooMailWebService/0.8.113.315625
References: <20110902145107.GA19571@gonzales> <CAEimHHCTv=EYbwK_349XdWnX8zk+CHWnWjYPqbHEeHveN03RqA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1314976729.32753.YahooMailRC@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 08:18:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] paradox
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
In-Reply-To: <CAEimHHCTv=EYbwK_349XdWnX8zk+CHWnWjYPqbHEeHveN03RqA@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.236.26
 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-666335744-1314976729=:32753"

--0-666335744-1314976729=:32753
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Meant to hurt the brain.  Try "the set of all sets that are not members of 
themselves is not a member of itself"  Of course, it generally isn't a set at 
all, but that just makes matters worse somehow.





________________________________
From: Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, September 2, 2011 10:00:58 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] paradox

ouch, my brain.

Let me see if I can pull this back to english.  "is it true that <the property 
of a thing not having itself as a property> is a property of itself" 
(angle-brackets added for clarity).....

that doesn't help, my brain still hurts.  It's a lot more of a brain teaser than 
"this sentence is a lie", that's for sure.  I like.


On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Martin Bays <mbays@sdf.org> wrote:

Cute Russel for properties, which translates nicely to lojban:
>
>xu lo ka ce'u ce'u na ckaji ku vo'a ckaji
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.


--0-666335744-1314976729=:32753
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">Meant to hurt the brain.&nbsp; Try "the set of all sets that a=
re not members of themselves is not a member of itself"&nbsp; Of course, it=
 generally isn't a set at all, but that just makes matters worse somehow.<b=
r><div><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman, new york, times=
, serif;font-size:12pt"><br><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman, new =
york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><hr siz=
e=3D"1"><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Luke Bergen =
&lt;lukeabergen@gmail.com&gt;<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:<=
/span></b> lojban@googlegroups.com<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;"=
>Sent:</span></b> Fri, September 2, 2011 10:00:58 AM<br><b><span style=3D"f=
ont-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [lojban] paradox<br></font><br>
ouch, my brain.<div><br></div><div>Let me see if I can pull this back to en=
glish. &nbsp;"is it true that &lt;the property of a thing not having itself=
 as a property&gt; is a property of itself" (angle-brackets added for clari=
ty).....</div>

<div><br></div><div>that doesn't help, my brain still hurts. &nbsp;It's a l=
ot more of a brain teaser than "this sentence is a lie", that's for sure. &=
nbsp;I like.<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 10:51=
 AM, Martin Bays <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailt=
o:mbays@sdf.org" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:mbays@sdf.org">mbays@sdf.=
org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Cute Russel for properties, which translate=
s nicely to lojban:<br>
<br>
xu lo ka ce'u ce'u na ckaji ku vo'a ckaji<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.<br>
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.<br><span>

For more options, visit this group at <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://g=
roups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den">http://groups.google.com/group/lojba=
n?hl=3Den</a>.</span><br>


</div></div>



</div></body></html>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.<br />



--0-666335744-1314976729=:32753--