From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhCn6bHzBBoEayRHrQ@googlegroups.com Sun Sep 11 01:43:31 2011 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1R2fdQ-00006e-8Z; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 01:43:31 -0700 Received: by wwe5 with SMTP id 5sf1339453wwe.16 for ; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 01:43:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=gmqIW5DDypoPSzQrRIecFQNaEJ4ng660GdhujbSUVt8=; b=y6F/zp1yvbY2M9q7lwp5ut1crOf3VjIGxwPpVyhB4v9L7lw7tn5/Yxioy12u4NIo26 Zknwhxp0/9fk/iHKJ9R6Mu8bzM2NqVvDEDrSsWq2rUo7iocnujb0r8A5K3e3AUco2fnx 7eL7qD7tfu5LrwodmmCEspNc6nKzgCLBKmbNE= Received: by 10.216.173.78 with SMTP id u56mr1524718wel.15.1315730599671; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 01:43:19 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.213.23.92 with SMTP id q28ls522968ebb.3.gmail; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 01:43:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.4.5 with SMTP id 5mr233625ebp.4.1315730598518; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 01:43:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.4.5 with SMTP id 5mr233623ebp.4.1315730598488; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 01:43:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f43.google.com (mail-fx0-f43.google.com [209.85.161.43]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m9si440990faf.0.2011.09.11.01.43.17 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 11 Sep 2011 01:43:17 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.43 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.43; Received: by fxh19 with SMTP id 19so1162660fxh.2 for ; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 01:43:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.62.8 with SMTP id v8mr2823913fah.43.1315730597200; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 01:43:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.41.68 with HTTP; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 01:43:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4E6BD617.5070703@lojban.org> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 02:43:17 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] fu'ivla From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.43 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015173ffa18ddc2f304aca66680 --0015173ffa18ddc2f304aca66680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 1:47 AM, Remo Dentato wrote: > On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 2:38 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > My own personal rule is, basically, "use lujvo or cmene instead". I > loathe > > fu'ivla. > > While fu'ivla can be easily misused, I think they have a very > important function and we should use them more. There are concepts > and words that are extremely specific to a culture (a group of people, > a scientific field, etc..) trying to translate them would only create > confusion and narrow the meaning of a lujvo forcing it to mean exactly > that specific thing. > I would use a cmene in that scenario. Also, I should probably mention that I endorse .xorxes.'(?) proposal to treat cmene as normal brivla (i.e. allow them to be used as selbri.) I personally believe that that simple addition to their functionality would be more than enough to cause fu'ivla to be completely deprecated. > cmevla and fu'ivla are the only two mechanisms to borrow words from > other languages, I wish cmevla were brivla as it was discussed here > some time ago but the argument has been dismissed for the time being. > I don't know if anyone ever drafted it into a formal proposal, but if someone were to explain how to do so, as well as the steps needed to get it voted on (eventually, I believe there's a lock on change proposals right now), I'd be more than happy to do so myself. -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0015173ffa18ddc2f304aca66680 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 1:47 AM, Remo Dentato <rdentato@gmail.co= m> wrote:
On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 2:38 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
> My own personal rule is, basically, "use lujvo or cmene instead&q= uot;. I loathe
> fu'ivla.

While fu'ivla can be easily misused, I think they have a very
important function and we should use them more. =A0There are concepts
and words that are extremely specific to a culture (a group of people,
a scientific field, etc..) trying to translate them would only create
confusion and narrow the meaning of a lujvo forcing it to mean exactly
that specific thing.

I would use a cmene in that s= cenario. Also, I should probably mention that I endorse .xorxes.'(?) pr= oposal to treat cmene as normal brivla (i.e. allow them to be used as selbr= i.) I personally believe that that simple addition to their functionality w= ould be more than enough to cause fu'ivla to be completely deprecated.<= br> =A0
cmevla and fu'ivla are the only two mechanisms to borrow words from
other languages, I wish cmevla were brivla as it was discussed here
some time ago but the argument has been dismissed for the time being.

I don't know if anyone ever drafted it into a forma= l proposal, but if someone were to explain how to do so, as well as the ste= ps needed to get it voted on (eventually, I believe there's a lock on c= hange proposals right now), I'd be more than happy to do so myself.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko c= mima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the = Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
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