From lojban+bncCOTEtqyUDhD_97TzBBoEyLAtaw@googlegroups.com Sun Sep 11 15:54:02 2011 Received: from mail-pz0-f57.google.com ([209.85.210.57]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1R2suW-0001Sw-0D; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 15:54:02 -0700 Received: by pzk5 with SMTP id 5sf8904578pzk.12 for ; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 15:53:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:x-pgp-key :x-pgp-keyid:x-cunselcu'a-valsi:user-agent:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=Ixqhd1cXpOlwdXsWmPfyea610AU7TfkF4MlMCjn4Eqc=; b=nUzR3pFsZti+CmjxRpO97LQxYZXI148xt3HPG/cdSoPpuekkuAkg4Ovqb/b3F1WKIo 50F1EP3DQEMewL13GvbuUhnr87nrf69orMHiPy2UqNSEAoLuioLIRnYBqha5twLnCpPQ i8daBtFoL016LYKgyP6H/KxfWMsUssMUDjcXw= Received: by 10.68.6.136 with SMTP id b8mr806040pba.37.1315781631951; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 15:53:51 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.38.201 with SMTP id i9ls11386338pbk.3.gmail; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 15:53:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.62.35 with SMTP id v3mr3242989pbr.32.1315781631284; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 15:53:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.62.35 with SMTP id v3mr3242988pbr.32.1315781631272; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 15:53:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sdf.lonestar.org (mx.sdf.org. [192.94.73.19]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j4si20062659pbi.2.2011.09.11.15.53.51 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 11 Sep 2011 15:53:51 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of mbays@sdf.org designates 192.94.73.19 as permitted sender) client-ip=192.94.73.19; Received: from gonzales.homelinux.org (root@sverige.freeshell.org [192.94.73.4]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p8BMroxV019901 for ; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 22:53:50 GMT Received: from martin by gonzales.homelinux.org with local (Exim 4.75) (envelope-from ) id 1R2suM-0001wz-Bs for lojban@googlegroups.com; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 18:53:50 -0400 Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 18:53:50 -0400 From: Martin Bays To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural variable Message-ID: <20110911225350.GA10666@gonzales> References: <20110909002555.GA14986@gonzales> <20110909142128.GA18556@gonzales> <20110910000859.GG30010@gonzales> <20110910151019.GI30010@gonzales> <20110911174656.GJ30010@gonzales> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="k1lZvvs/B4yU6o8G" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20110911174656.GJ30010@gonzales> X-PGP-Key: http://mbays.freeshell.org/pubkey.asc X-PGP-KeyId: B5FB2CD6 X-cunselcu'a-valsi: jicmu User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Original-Sender: mbays@sdf.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of mbays@sdf.org designates 192.94.73.19 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mbays@sdf.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , --k1lZvvs/B4yU6o8G Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline * Sunday, 2011-09-11 at 13:46 -0400 - Martin Bays : > So we need something corresponding to Chierchia's down operator. This > shouldn't be {lo'e}, because that's about genericity. I'm wondering > whether it could indeed be {lo} - using Chierchia's type-shifting (which > is similar to Carlson's quantification over stages) to get back to > existential quantification over instances. On second thoughts it looks like {lo ka} already does the job of the down operator. Kinds are little more than reified predicates. The down operator has a massifying effect which {lo ka} doesn't, but I don't see why we'd want want that in lojban anyway. --k1lZvvs/B4yU6o8G Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk5tO/4ACgkQULC7OLX7LNbnSQCdEcthaC35GZmVbqYlnkq4AyP3 BUgAoIh43PfN1tLgACA3ddzON1MQLnqF =Y1SN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --k1lZvvs/B4yU6o8G--