From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRCOjbvzBBoEULewQg@googlegroups.com Mon Sep 12 19:57:29 2011 Received: from mail-yi0-f61.google.com ([209.85.218.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1R3JBe-0002hx-Hr; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 19:57:28 -0700 Received: by yih13 with SMTP id 13sf3447yih.16 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 19:57:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-newman-property:x-yahoo-newman-id :x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references:message-id:date:from:subject:to :in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=K4Qz3ClAoS+Rg24zovBK7Y58xbvMgGyNMaLY3ZeT7jk=; b=b+reANixV8iMWp4N7NvfCIVlzojvf4C2a3kM7sdMcepyjSJlCLkaKGxPh9+/fADVHC oudRAEFh83y6Ty4/S75qPMJxk7sMGVzfzcxkFuK0cIz191v5Li+w1MJ/ek3WdP6xgnv0 CD7KcvtbASzxnvrdMvtl9OxIUnLZFuKmAceYI= Received: by 10.146.249.20 with SMTP id w20mr790008yah.3.1315882638456; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 19:57:18 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.171.12 with SMTP id y12ls168156ano.2.gmail; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 19:57:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.185.4 with SMTP id t4mr26140592yhm.3.1315882608095; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 19:56:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.185.4 with SMTP id t4mr26137741yhm.3.1315882579562; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 19:56:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm4.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com (nm4.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.94.237.205]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id l30si67103yhe.5.2011.09.12.19.56.19; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 19:56:19 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.237.205 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.94.237.205; Received: from [66.94.237.126] by nm4.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Sep 2011 02:56:19 -0000 Received: from [66.94.237.100] by tm1.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Sep 2011 02:56:19 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1005.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Sep 2011 02:56:19 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 252368.35037.bm@omp1005.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 17746 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Sep 2011 02:56:19 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: W5AOPkoVM1mVM19UQCpljk5k2KEsUDDxtuY6IE9JhoAH2je U44ZfQFlee1oyHLoYRVRq146OGzNZqiU9ToBlEAkJ51oHWlBo2nVAWqCP1DX XNMKmkv4bc1IFVX_Enrz0F_CroMrHEhVBbjpRxS3JGoC1kwjz9B5Sj5sEeEg 1KLELPK_DckLMu6o28jtbEXaQhZ_9xiigJ0OvD.nMxFLL_eEmzH5fxNS752q aaJBBnHPOK9dMqqIsEOEUt4MXSKsxtPDnLPrQlTngCL4ie8CqSS0iVIifSBV 2u2zAQzMQtxS3T8TLFTnYBNtdxfk7HjLcpmuBOEojmhiEO3JvTDgvUPQmcYB 4XYpN43lqmB4qO4enzWeu710sO34nm14YAU_YAg9.nxhWAVrLFSOA8yNvqtw GOFhfxs108GHnUv0yW1pVxJ1igYfzApD4atNMMGuIrwQ9DNFaiuFyynaShF7 czb5d1Vp16ftDemE3UKbC_R0GEHeUOVEQVSidmP.vL6zgouLSyJwvl0uvB6c QQd2WCbNFNyzicQ-- Received: from [99.92.108.41] by web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 19:56:19 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/574 YahooMailWebService/0.8.113.315625 References: <1315774215.25455.YahooMailRC@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20110912225255.GG28088@gonzales> Message-ID: <1315882579.17472.YahooMailRC@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 19:56:19 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural variable To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.237.205 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, putting aside the tendency to talk about John stages, when we only ap= pear=20 to be talking about John, I can't see any reason to think that there are tw= o=20 things here, but rather one thing related in different ways to different=20 predicates (or even, in hairy cases, to the same one). ----- Original Message ---- From: Jorge Llamb=EDas To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, September 12, 2011 9:22:53 PM Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural= =20 variable On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 7:52 PM, Martin Bays wrote: > > He also thinks we should be careful to separate generic brodas, which > satisfy a predicate iff brodas tend to satisfy it, from kinds which can > have entirely different properties (like being widespread). Would you also want to separate generic John, which satisfies a predicate iff his stages tend to satisfy it ( like "... smokes"), from the John that can have entirely different properties (like "... was born in London")? How is "John smokes and was born in London" different from "chihuahuas are fiercely loyal and may have originated in Mexico"? I don't see a good reason to accept one but not the other. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= =20 "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to=20 lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at=20 http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.