From lojban+bncCOTEtqyUDhD3q8rzBBoEqntNrw@googlegroups.com Thu Sep 15 17:19:13 2011 Received: from mail-pz0-f57.google.com ([209.85.210.57]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1R4M99-0007pV-Fn; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 17:19:13 -0700 Received: by pzd13 with SMTP id 13sf142107pzd.12 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 17:19:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:x-pgp-key :x-pgp-keyid:x-cunselcu'a-valsi:user-agent:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=rsq8gZexG5jl9130sweBQQIm/WJDBWD0+WxvPLId4yk=; b=eRPpFW+WsdSt2v7/LOVivYW/xe7ECzom3snaJ3EpJMt93FW7uepJ8Or5QCmEdduv9U F23eCOo1oVCDD5TyWqSxcHUINuMJ2QwQbC860VUFRHTjXanmfANWHT3PeNiQJELbfpja 2qJfgPHJAH3MtkxF/fM8bVWfbu9HF50Tk+1Pw= Received: by 10.68.17.136 with SMTP id o8mr391471pbd.0.1316132343965; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 17:19:03 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.33.194 with SMTP id t2ls11619888pbi.0.gmail; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 17:19:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.62.165 with SMTP id z5mr1133267pbr.12.1316132343245; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 17:19:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.62.165 with SMTP id z5mr1133266pbr.12.1316132343228; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 17:19:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sdf.lonestar.org (mx.sdf.org. [192.94.73.19]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j4si12619935pbi.2.2011.09.15.17.19.03 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 15 Sep 2011 17:19:03 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of mbays@sdf.org designates 192.94.73.19 as permitted sender) client-ip=192.94.73.19; Received: from gonzales.homelinux.org (root@sverige.freeshell.org [192.94.73.4]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p8G0J2OT027936 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 00:19:02 GMT Received: from martin by gonzales.homelinux.org with local (Exim 4.75) (envelope-from ) id 1R4M90-0004eh-Bo for lojban@googlegroups.com; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 20:19:02 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 20:19:02 -0400 From: Martin Bays To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural variable Message-ID: <20110916001902.GE7274@gonzales> References: <1315774215.25455.YahooMailRC@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20110912225255.GG28088@gonzales> <20110914024044.GN28088@gonzales> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Pgaa2uWPnPrfixyx" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-PGP-Key: http://mbays.freeshell.org/pubkey.asc X-PGP-KeyId: B5FB2CD6 X-cunselcu'a-valsi: farlu User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Original-Sender: mbays@sdf.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of mbays@sdf.org designates 192.94.73.19 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mbays@sdf.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , --Pgaa2uWPnPrfixyx Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable * Wednesday, 2011-09-14 at 19:13 -0300 - Jorge Llamb=EDas : > On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 11:40 PM, Martin Bays wrote: > > * Monday, 2011-09-12 at 23:22 -0300 - Jorge Llamb=EDas : > >> > >> How is "John smokes and was born in London" different from "chihuahuas > >> are fiercely loyal and may have originated in Mexico"? > >> > >> I don't see a good reason to accept one but not the other. > > > > We can analyse the generic sentences like this (as in Chierchia98, p.36= 6): > > > > "John smokes" -> for generic relevant situations s, John smokes in s >=20 > I would suggest -> for generic relevant situations s, John is smoking in s >=20 > otherwise you are explaining "John smokes" in terms of "John smokes" agai= n. Quite right. > There's only one genericity to explain if you consider intrinsic > properties of chihuahuas. >=20 > In any case, the point was that John remains John whether we consider > his situational properties or his non-situational properties, and > similarly we don't really need to have two different chihuahuas, the > kind and the generic. It's their properties that can be classified as > kind-properties and generic-properties. Fine. I agree that there's an analogy. But since the generic quantifier is over quite different things (situations vs instances*), it seems entirely coherent to deal with them in different ways. Martin *(allowing that it makes sense to quantify over instances without touching situations (i.e. "in intension")... which it seems formally would mean introducing constants for every chihuahua... but I'm happy to ignore that as a technicality) --Pgaa2uWPnPrfixyx Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk5ylfYACgkQULC7OLX7LNbmZgCfTs6A+JgtpfaogK1ecqBug9or 1u0AoM2EvmLOrOyqcXspsPbLYg8qVZS0 =I33u -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Pgaa2uWPnPrfixyx--