From lojban+bncCML0xpmUARDtkoDzBBoE2h9Czg@googlegroups.com Thu Sep 01 15:38:49 2011 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QzFuI-0005i0-0E; Thu, 01 Sep 2011 15:38:49 -0700 Received: by fxd2 with SMTP id 2sf806898fxd.16 for ; Thu, 01 Sep 2011 15:38:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=M7Z2Bfc9MvEV42HNRIf07qBCQ/MMeIvA0iQ4JdU0H8U=; b=Cdrvp46o1Y3ACUCSCja0puYp7x3y4bE77tFHpltwhDIe5I3dkVWNmTdF8ZrifmwAdn wT3UzKElc3vgpAdUSkzabxPQpvdyqQp3aRq4Zn0JreqjEU5XIhde0xIv52aHdriPISka TbK8D5w2LPiy9nVSlWZpHMStJRU9RBnUEcLmU= Received: by 10.223.91.83 with SMTP id l19mr156934fam.39.1314916717464; Thu, 01 Sep 2011 15:38:37 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.38.7 with SMTP id z7ls935320bkd.3.gmail; Thu, 01 Sep 2011 15:38:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.150.197 with SMTP id z5mr74544bkv.3.1314916716035; Thu, 01 Sep 2011 15:38:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.150.197 with SMTP id z5mr74543bkv.3.1314916716005; Thu, 01 Sep 2011 15:38:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f52.google.com (mail-fx0-f52.google.com [209.85.161.52]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k16si83332fah.0.2011.09.01.15.38.35 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 01 Sep 2011 15:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.52 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.52; Received: by mail-fx0-f52.google.com with SMTP id 18so1683355fxd.11 for ; Thu, 01 Sep 2011 15:38:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.30.145 with SMTP id u17mr501691fac.137.1314916715871; Thu, 01 Sep 2011 15:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.100.13 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Sep 2011 15:38:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 18:38:35 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: assignment affected by context From: Ian Johnson To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.52 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001517475ea2c23cbc04abe8e782 --001517475ea2c23cbc04abe8e782 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Are you sure that {na} isn't somehow special in this regard (since it is special in several other regards)? Also, the definition of {lo} involves {zo'e}, which means that the context of the sentence may affect the referen= t of {lo djacu}, no? mu'o mi'e .latros. 2011/9/1 Jorge Llamb=EDas > On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Ian Johnson > wrote: > > .oi lo'ai pi ro sa'ai pi mu le'ai > > > > .u'u mu'o mi'e .latros. > > > > On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 11:15 PM, Ian Johnson > > wrote: > >> > >> Suppose I say {mi pinxe loi djacu goi ko'a}. Suppose the precise > statement > >> is {mi pinxe pi ro loi djacu goi ko'a} (but I don't say this). To what > does > >> {ko'a} get assigned, the entire mass, or just the portion of the mass > that I > >> drank? > > Suppose you say instead "mi na pinxe pimu lo djacu goi ko'a". > > Assuming fractional quantifiers behave like ordinary quantifiers, that > means you drank some amount (if any) other than 50% (say you drank > 20%). Then there is no such thing as "the 50% that I didn't drink", so > ko'a can only have the same referent as "lo djacu". A quantifier > expression doesn't have a direct referent that it could transfer to > "ko'a". > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --001517475ea2c23cbc04abe8e782 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Are you sure that {na} isn't somehow special in this regard (since it i= s special in several other regards)? Also, the definition of {lo} involves = {zo'e}, which means that the context of the sentence may affect the ref= erent of {lo djacu}, no?

mu'o mi'e .latros.

2011/9/1 J= orge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Ian John= son <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
> .oi lo'ai pi ro sa'ai pi mu le'ai
>
> .u'u mu'o mi'e .latros.
>
> On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 11:15 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Suppose I say {mi pinxe loi djacu goi ko'a}. Suppose the preci= se statement
>> is {mi pinxe pi ro loi djacu goi ko'a} (but I don't say th= is). To what does
>> {ko'a} get assigned, the entire mass, or just the portion of t= he mass that I
>> drank?

Suppose you say instead "mi na pinxe pimu lo djacu goi ko&= #39;a".

Assuming fractional quantifiers behave like ordinary quantifiers, that
means you drank some amount (if any) other than 50% (say you drank
20%). Then there is no such thing as "the 50% that I didn't drink&= quot;, so
ko'a can only have the same referent as "lo djacu". A quantif= ier
expression doesn't have a direct referent that it could transfer to
"ko'a".

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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