From lojban+bncCK7Yk5CUCxCu3ePzBBoEbDs0Tw@googlegroups.com Tue Sep 20 12:51:20 2011 Received: from mail-pz0-f61.google.com ([209.85.210.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1R66Le-0002yV-88; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:51:20 -0700 Received: by pzk36 with SMTP id 36sf130560pzk.16 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:51:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=0GfIsE7Pl5Mo2jmJuM5rhNMXz8GzCowbEMl4Q+SChfA=; b=VLlxx7s1WiLG6j0g74TjAC0l+9kUuKxWEn8oZEh/P0htjqdkvp9Z5YonaN8Qyhkv5f 7qRhUQn7K7pR9WBYrL+V7Qw79xGSuSmV2C2jBfpQZxSEP6ZxWDefJFDxYYSNxXS6RRm/ K3PDxm7vNI2JBUKk4u0KB7cMvYGroOXDZt7/0= Received: by 10.68.2.66 with SMTP id 2mr5920pbs.19.1316548270395; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:51:10 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.33.194 with SMTP id t2ls2748576pbi.0.gmail; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.62.35 with SMTP id v3mr17491pbr.32.1316548269603; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.62.35 with SMTP id v3mr17489pbr.32.1316548269593; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iy0-f174.google.com (mail-iy0-f174.google.com [209.85.210.174]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fc18si429981icb.1.2011.09.20.12.51.09 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rdentato@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.174 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.174; Received: by mail-iy0-f174.google.com with SMTP id q3so1347468iaq.33 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:51:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.25.229 with SMTP id a37mr2043286ibc.8.1316548269456; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.42.165.8 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:51:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201109200127.39738.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 21:51:09 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Should we have another mailing list for abstruse discussions? From: Remo Dentato To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: rdentato@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rdentato@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.174 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rdentato@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 8:47 PM, djandus wrote: > So, two main issues. Messy threads: > 2) could send the wrong message to new Lojbanists Can I elaborate on that? And John sorry if I pick an example from one of your emails, it's just the last one in the thread at the moment. On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 6:30 PM, John E Clifford wrote: > No classifiers because Lojban (in keeping with its SAE status) is rigorously > count. In fact, one ongoing problem in Lojban has been how to get mass terms in > where they are "necessary" (so much, again for S-WH). L-sets help a bit. It's > not clear that kinds do. Imagine that I am a new Lojbanist and being, as I am, ignorant of linguistics, I understand from what you write that: A) Lojban has no classifiers! (whatever they are) because has a SAE status (?? B) Lojban is count!!! (whatever it means) C) Lojban has a problem in expressing "masses" even where they are necessary!! D) I need to know what L-sets are before being able to use masses in Lojban E) Something is not clear about Lojban. Frankly, this would be more than enough to make me turn away and spread words that Lojban is impossible to use. I'm sure it's my fault and I can't understand those high level concept but at the same time, I'm sure that I *can* use Lojban (poorly, maybe, but I'll learn eventually) and I'm sure that there's a way to say anything that i want to say (and maybe more). It may be too little and it also may be not really effective, but I'm working hard to create things that could attract new people to lojban (children books, comics, cheat sheets) as I think we lack the critical mass we need. I'm really worried about the impact of mixing extremely high level discussions with more mundane ones as, for me, they might be misinterpreted as a sign that Lojban is a a poorly designed language. remod -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. 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