From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhDri-TzBBoEPLrt3Q@googlegroups.com Tue Sep 20 14:30:31 2011 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1R67tb-0006Mj-AD; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:30:30 -0700 Received: by fxg17 with SMTP id 17sf1035109fxg.16 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:30:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=yAj1zq3EB6xHoA6g6u3m2MI2S6utSG534axdBAtVyeI=; b=XmBWrPEyEvebzTWQOKQluPM4UrBPrXNCvxozQwrRcOkHgrRknJdYQv5t/6iGoCzvB+ Kek7R6LWQ/QjcLqjSHIlwHfEQrs3eZrW6GQxaiRGzdWAh+SxajYkdAjefnAfmaCnrA9e 18WNi7zl4ATBJY0inIoiusg/JTLBQJrkv0tQU= Received: by 10.223.91.83 with SMTP id l19mr499249fam.39.1316554219154; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:30:19 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.134.87 with SMTP id i23ls1286089bkt.2.gmail; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:30:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.128.204 with SMTP id l12mr2246bks.1.1316554218204; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:30:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.128.204 with SMTP id l12mr2245bks.1.1316554218157; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:30:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f42.google.com (mail-fx0-f42.google.com [209.85.161.42]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f27si408618faf.2.2011.09.20.14.30.18 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:30:18 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.42 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.42; Received: by fxbb27 with SMTP id b27so2194866fxb.1 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:30:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.88.214 with SMTP id b22mr2034197fam.5.1316554217870; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:30:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.41.68 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:30:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1316552990.27459.YahooMailRC@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <90e6ba6e8ea2b4b5d104ad5c4012@google.com> <94BEFB7E-3B68-4F1A-BAE4-55232754DB45@yahoo.com> <1316552990.27459.YahooMailRC@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:30:17 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Should we have another mailing list for abstruse discussions? From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd3f57e7bd79504ad662a09 --000e0cd3f57e7bd79504ad662a09 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 My attraction to Lojban is the unambiguous-ness of it's pronunciation, that it is possible to be as specific or as clear as you want, and the place structure system it has due to being based on predicate logic. Oh yes, and that stated goal of being able to talk to computers and have them /actually understand you/. I don't take up Klingon because I'm not a Trekkie. While I do like the Star Trek franchise, I'm not enough of a fan to devote time to learn a language spoken by a fictitious race of war-mongers. /IF/ I were going to learn the language of a star Trek species, I'd learn Vulcan. The only Klingon I ever liked was Torres on Voyager, and she was milato. I don't take up toki pona because it's ugly. I realize that's a subjective argument, but meh. I'm allowed. {lo broda} means "one or more things which actually fit into the x1 slot of the predicate {broda}". On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 3:09 PM, John E Clifford wrote: > Well, in keeping with the saying, what is the attraction of Lojban to you? > Why not take up Klingon, which has a definite culture and definitive answers > to your haja questions (haja form the pluperfect subjunctive?, a question > liable to get more muddy than xorlo in Lojban)? Or toki pona, that takes > about a day to learn enough to carry on conversations on a range of things > and contribute to the list? And, while most of your contributions have been > about haja questions or general learning aids (the best app for your > smartphone, say), you have taken part in earlier rounds of the eternal xorlo > issue so, are not completely uninterested nor ignorant. So, what do you > think {lo broda} means? > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Jonathan Jones > *To:* lojban@googlegroups.com > *Sent:* Tue, September 20, 2011 2:58:45 PM > *Subject:* Re: [lojban] Should we have another mailing list for abstruse > discussions? > > On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 8:04 AM, John E. Clifford wrote: > >> Well, as the old saying (I've been saying it for thirty some years) goes, >> "If you want to have a logical language, you have to put up with a little >> logic". In the present case, since it concerns {zo'e}, the most common >> unwritten word in Lojban, and thus {lo}, the most common written word >> (possibly excluding {I} and { cu}), it would seem to be worthy of general >> attention. The demands of the discussion are not great (yes, Montague's >> course was graduate level, but Partee's was just Senior level and we don't >> need the whole pile here). So gird up and learn a little about possible >> worlds and mappings and intensionality. Jboske would be a nice site, but,as >> noted, no one goes there and there is no handy connection to it from the >> general site. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> > > I don't even know what the TITLE means. Oh, I know I could probably look it > up and find out, sure. But, here's the thing- I don't care. I am not a > linguist or logician. I have no interest whatsoever IN understanding. > Figuring out how the language works isn't my job. That job belongs to the > linguists and logicians. They figure out how a word works, then they tell > us, in layman's terms, once they've figured it out. The whole zo'e thing > going on is exactly that- something they are figuring out. > > I've got enough stuff on my "to learn" plate being in college without > putting the learning of an entirely new discipline on there too- especially > one that I'm not interested in anyway. If I don't /need/ to learn it, and I > don't /want/ to learn it, I'm not going to learn it. Simple as that. Get > back to me when you figure out what zo'e means. > > > >> >> On Sep 20, 2011, at 5:40, rdentato@gmail.com wrote: >> >> On , Arnt Richard Johansen wrote: >> > There is jboske@yahoogroups.com, but that one hasn't been posted to >> since 2007. >> >> Great! Let's ask those that want to conduct such in-depth discussions to >> move there! >> >> remod >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --000e0cd3f57e7bd79504ad662a09 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My attraction to Lojban is the unambiguous-ness of it's pronunciation,= =20 that it is possible to be as specific or as clear as you want, and the=20 place structure system it has due to being based on predicate logic. Oh yes= , and that stated goal of being able to talk to computers and have them /ac= tually understand you/.

I don't take up Klingon because I'm not a Trekkie. While I do like = the=20 Star Trek franchise, I'm not enough of a fan to devote time to learn a= =20 language spoken by a fictitious race of war-mongers. /IF/ I were going=20 to learn the language of a star Trek species, I'd learn Vulcan. The onl= y Klingon I ever liked was Torres on Voyager, and she was milato.

I don't take up toki pona because it's ugly. I realize that's a= subjective argument, but meh. I'm allowed.

{lo broda} means "one or more things which actually fit into the x1 sl= ot of the predicate {broda}".

On Tue= , Sep 20, 2011 at 3:09 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>= ; wrote:
Well, in keeping with the saying, w= hat is the attraction of Lojban to you?=A0 Why not take up Klingon, which h= as a definite culture and definitive answers to your haja questions (haja f= orm the pluperfect subjunctive?, a question liable to get more muddy than x= orlo in Lojban)?=A0 Or toki pona, that takes about a day to learn enough to= carry on conversations on a range of things and contribute to the list? An= d, while most of your contributions have been about haja questions or gener= al learning aids (the best app for your smartphone, say), you have taken pa= rt in earlier rounds of the eternal xorlo issue so, are not completely unin= terested nor ignorant.=A0 So, what do you think {lo broda} means?


From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com&g= t;
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, September 20, 201= 1 2:58:45 PM
Subject: Re:= [lojban] Should we have another mailing list for abstruse discussions?

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 8:04 AM, John E. Cliffor= d <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, as the old saying (I've been saying it for thirty some = years) goes, "If you want to have a logical language, you have to put = up with a little logic". =A0In the present case, since it concerns {zo= 'e}, the most common unwritten word in Lojban, and thus {lo}, the most = common written word (possibly excluding {I} and { cu}), it would seem to be= worthy of general attention. =A0The demands of the discussion are not grea= t (yes, Montague's course was graduate level, but Partee's was just= Senior level and we don't need the whole pile here). =A0So gird up and= learn a little about possible worlds and mappings and intensionality. =A0J= boske would be a nice site, but,as noted, no one goes there and there is no= handy connection to it from the general site.

Sent from my iPad

I don't eve= n know what the TITLE means. Oh, I know I could probably look it up and fin= d out, sure. But, here's the thing- I don't care. I am not a lingui= st or logician. I have no interest whatsoever IN understanding. Figuring ou= t how the language works isn't my job. That job belongs to the linguist= s and logicians. They figure out how a word works, then they tell us, in la= yman's terms, once they've figured it out. The whole zo'e thing= going on is exactly that- something they are figuring out.

I've got enough stuff on my "to learn" plate being in col= lege without putting the learning of an entirely new discipline on there to= o- especially one that I'm not interested in anyway. If I don't /ne= ed/ to learn it, and I don't /want/ to learn it, I'm not going to l= earn it. Simple as that. Get back to me when you figure out what zo'e m= eans.

=A0
=

On Sep 20, 2011, at 5:40, rdentato@gmail.com wro= te:

On , Arnt Richard Johan= sen <a= rj@nvg.org> wrote:
> There is jboske@yahoogroups.com, bu= t that one hasn't been posted to since 2007.

Great! Let's ask those that want to conduct such in-depth discussio= ns to move there!

remod

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--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

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--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
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