From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDR2eTzBBoEmUkPRg@googlegroups.com Tue Sep 20 17:16:39 2011 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1R6AUD-0002j7-F9; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 17:16:39 -0700 Received: by fxg17 with SMTP id 17sf1133168fxg.16 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 17:16:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=vqEJyzd3U3sqvIfinVNEQojx58nXl6z6GLgof22K/yQ=; b=rcOJE6g0xTRzP19+lJVyXh6EWp1k8T/t8a7zpZGw+K+3JaT74JRzEh/rf5h1noDRd+ K6Tdl723O+ZGNIFmi0FKmXX91Ks1yM2+es8O8rAx6sNJuKCcJny3Daw26VCkByb/P4eW N77CMphhgHo+KFhL5WgnrTzF0FE8qwklwTdYM= Received: by 10.223.14.151 with SMTP id g23mr907faa.10.1316564177108; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 17:16:17 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.138.72 with SMTP id z8ls1346262bkt.3.gmail; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 17:16:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.129.18 with SMTP id m18mr23994bks.11.1316564176036; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 17:16:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.129.18 with SMTP id m18mr23993bks.11.1316564176021; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 17:16:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f43.google.com (mail-fx0-f43.google.com [209.85.161.43]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k16si463623fah.0.2011.09.20.17.16.16 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 20 Sep 2011 17:16:16 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.43 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.43; Received: by mail-fx0-f43.google.com with SMTP id 19so1820472fxh.16 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 17:16:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.101.2 with SMTP id a2mr29301fao.2.1316564175848; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 17:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.39.35 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Sep 2011 17:16:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20110920034640.GK4310@gonzales> References: <20110916000632.GD7274@gonzales> <20110918172927.GA4310@gonzales> <20110918213323.GB6878@gonzales> <20110919013653.GC6878@gonzales> <20110919231314.GI4310@gonzales> <20110920034640.GK4310@gonzales> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 21:16:15 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural variable From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.43 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:46 AM, Martin Bays wrote: > > The problems with counting and so on which arise when we mix kinds and > instances could be rectified by simply declaring that {da} and > {[quantifier] [selbri]} never get kinds - i.e. the corresponding > variables are over 'mundane' singular objects (AT minus K, in > Chierchia's notation). What would you then say of these: ro klesi be lo gerku cu gerku lo xanto cu bramau ro drata ke tumla danlu lo remna cu se tuple re da > I suggested something like this before, and I think you complained that > we shouldn't be separating out kinds from mundanes... but since > Chierchia does it, I feel licensed to push again for an explanation of > what would go so wrong if we did separate them out. I see no major problem in separating the metalinguistic construct "kind", as defined for example by Chierchia, for contexts in which they appear together with their manifestations. My only problem would be if you forbid saying things like (quote) "My two favourite things are to cycle and to go to the cinema alone", i.e. if you don't allow "to cycle" and "to go to the cinema alone" to count as things in any context. Whether you want to call them kinds or something else metalinguistically, it doesn't much matter. mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.