From lojban+bncCK30vq5WEK26jPMEGgRNu_Ku@googlegroups.com Sat Sep 03 23:40:04 2011 Received: from mail-pz0-f56.google.com ([209.85.210.56]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1R06Mv-0007yZ-Hd; Sat, 03 Sep 2011 23:40:03 -0700 Received: by pzk33 with SMTP id 33sf9363772pzk.1 for ; Sat, 03 Sep 2011 23:39:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition :content-transfer-encoding; bh=x4QYtRmq2eaFVkERwRRwN2Ljr5I8clAx6fuCTxc0Yxs=; b=d4KBWkCl3O4FPyT1ichl787XUPZx95Ei37PJ6i0WvNDasQa08yMavg/eYTa4Ugv2uz Ero7vWklMW3XIChA7gNvr1r6g/9iCKV4cQT7B27JI90WzIVQ+AREqyhC94TgX4EQSfQ+ /n7BfQSUh5y2oET2gExvQXcOadMocXNtZnoEU= Received: by 10.68.32.130 with SMTP id j2mr503699pbi.55.1315118381455; Sat, 03 Sep 2011 23:39:41 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.27.133 with SMTP id t5ls16984669pbg.1.gmail; Sat, 03 Sep 2011 23:39:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.59.38 with SMTP id w6mr1738809pbq.23.1315118379703; Sat, 03 Sep 2011 23:39:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.59.38 with SMTP id w6mr1738808pbq.23.1315118379689; Sat, 03 Sep 2011 23:39:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org (digitalkingdom.org. [173.13.139.234]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ll18si5599247pbb.0.2011.09.03.23.39.39 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 03 Sep 2011 23:39:39 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.234 as permitted sender) client-ip=173.13.139.234; Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1R06Mk-0007yW-C6 for lojban@googlegroups.com; Sat, 03 Sep 2011 23:39:38 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 23:39:38 -0700 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Regular Language Message-ID: <20110904063938.GN9995@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20110903200414.GM9995@digitalkingdom.org> <7b8b7e41-f4bb-413b-97ae-88f112a32aa0@d3g2000yqo.googlegroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7b8b7e41-f4bb-413b-97ae-88f112a32aa0@d3g2000yqo.googlegroups.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.234 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Sep 03, 2011 at 05:32:48PM -0700, Graham Morehead wrote: >=20 > > > (like all other human languages). =A0 > > > > Wait, what? =A0No. =A0No human language is context free, they are > > all context sensitive in the chomsky hieararchy, if not actually > > unrestricted. > > =A0Seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Context-free_grammar#Linguistic_appl= icat... > > for some citations on that issue. > > > > I'm wondering if you didn't mean CFG when you said regular > > language and CSG when you said CFG? >=20 > I've seen papers about those examples before. I still believe > human languages are Context-Free. The cross-serial dependencies > in Swiss German (and Dutch, I think) and reduplication in Bambara > can be modeled in a CFG if we assume sentences of some given > finite length or less. No human can understand a sentence of > infinite length anyway. >=20 > There is evidence that all human knowledge is stored in formations > constructed by context-free graph grammars (e.g.: > http://www.pnas.org/content/105/31/10687.full ) That's fascinating, because people seem to have no problem internalizing Lojban's elidable terminators, which as I'd said don't seem to be CFG-able (at least in a sane number of rules). -Robin --=20 http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.