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Subject: [lojban] Re: Mini-rant: gismu place consistency
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On Friday, December 16, 2011 11:17:26 PM UTC+4, Robin Powell wrote:
>
>
> If I had it to do over again, every gismu with an agent place would
> have it as the first place.  Every gismu with an audience or second
> agent of any type would have it as the second place.  There would
> probably be several other regularities as well.


Let's assume that
xau = BAI tag denoting agent or reference frame.
.iei = BAI tag denoting object.
.uai = BAI tag denoting property of the object.

Then we can rephrase many gismu as
ko'a djuno lo du'u ko'e brode kei ko'e = xau mi djuno .uai lo ka brode .iei 
ko'i
(the same for {morji} and company)

ko'a kakne lo ka brode = xau [je .iei] mi kakne .uai lo ka brode
ko'a te mukti lo nu brode = xau ko'a .iei ko'a .uai lo ka brode kei te 
mukti 
(May be xau = gau or xau = ma'i)
These tags can replace FA (a separate set of SE is not needed here if we 
use {jai}).

For {vecnu, dunda, cpacu} and {benji} we can use {be'i} tags (if {benji} is 
about sending objects, not information) as the core semantic prime for 
those gismu seems to be the same.
For sending information another set of BAI might be needed.
 

> I've been saying {manci} and {melbi} to my babies *a lot*, and I
> *still* have trouble remembering that it's {do melbi mi} and {mi
> manci do}.  GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.
>

This is not the problem. We can just use {selmanci} and forget about 
{manci}.
{xabju = se zdani} is a better example showing redundancy.


-Robin
>
> -- 
> http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
> Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
> is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
> is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/
>
>

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<br><br>On Friday, December 16, 2011 11:17:26 PM UTC+4, Robin Powell wrote:=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;bor=
der-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><br>If I had it to do over aga=
in, every gismu with an agent place would<br>have it as the first place. &n=
bsp;Every gismu with an audience or second<br>agent of any type would have =
it as the second place. &nbsp;There would<br>probably be several other regu=
larities as well.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Let's assume that</div><d=
iv>xau =3D BAI tag denoting agent or reference frame.</div><div>.iei =3D BA=
I tag denoting object.</div><div>.uai =3D BAI tag denoting property of the =
object.</div><div><br></div><div>Then we can rephrase many gismu as</div><d=
iv>ko'a djuno lo du'u ko'e brode kei ko'e =3D xau mi djuno .uai lo ka brode=
 .iei ko'i</div><div>(the same for {morji} and company)</div><div><br></div=
><div>ko'a kakne lo ka brode =3D xau [je .iei] mi kakne .uai lo ka brode</d=
iv><div>ko'a te mukti lo nu brode =3D xau ko'a .iei ko'a .uai lo ka brode k=
ei te mukti&nbsp;</div><div>(May be xau =3D gau or xau =3D ma'i)<br></div><=
div>These tags can replace FA (a separate set of SE is not needed here if w=
e use {jai}).</div><div><br></div><div>For {vecnu, dunda, cpacu} and {benji=
} we can use {be'i} tags (if {benji} is about sending objects, not informat=
ion) as the core semantic prime for those gismu seems to be the same.</div>=
<div>For sending information another set of BAI might be needed.</div><div>=
&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-lef=
t: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><p>I've been sayin=
g {manci} and {melbi} to my babies *a lot*, and I<br>*still* have trouble r=
emembering that it's {do melbi mi} and {mi<br>manci do}. &nbsp;GRAAAAAAAAAA=
AAAAAAAAAAAAH.</p></blockquote><div><br></div><div>This is not the problem.=
 We can just use {selmanci} and forget about {manci}.</div><div>{xabju =3D =
se zdani} is a better example showing redundancy.</div><div><br></div><div>=
<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left:=
 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><p>-Robin</p><p>-- <=
br><a href=3D"http://singinst.org/" target=3D"_blank">http://singinst.org/<=
/a> : &nbsp;Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.<br>Lojban (<a href=
=3D"http://www.lojban.org/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.lojban.org/</a>): =
The language in which "this parrot<br>is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi"=
, but "this sentence is false"<br>is "na nei". &nbsp; My personal page: <a =
href=3D"http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.di=
gitalkingdom.org/<wbr>rlp/</a></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p></blockquote>

<p></p>

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