Received: from mail-ie0-f183.google.com ([209.85.223.183]:61295) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UWrft-0001v4-7w for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 10:15:47 -0700 Received: by mail-ie0-f183.google.com with SMTP id x14sf2202440ief.20 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 10:15:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:received-spf:x-received :mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:x-spam-score:x-spam_score:x-spam_score_int:x-spam_bar :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=N9MS/eQ+JAtTuz9jMHtFBMXpEeINGagKSfl37/Kida0=; b=XsrQiFKaZMa+WuDaPWCoRVxpEjBGjil2jwpuPZpwDh2jiS+lp38a2Qle3PS33VOIsR ysPa0RO+7hgM+bzPlh8gGqBxOer4UP0AC0QJkQOg8mBCjoZ/jg/TSK5SIDDoXVlkbVpX PlCEz8y/nUUbJtbAVQWRnRp/vmUT4Pyz9dHGHHnq+dfyt5HsPIdVxFBCzgaeNJkEZlLB iNsa7/TaM/99HUDeeRDGdZnFXw1Nln6ra9EGYBy0p4zf0F5e/bnpFEushtdLe2XVMTgO vas8kiJrwIqGGtrngYzZxOBhO089um0OC4rlfrJS1W0cMp+WIWAWLgka5Jj1/Drm6BZl BpBg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:received-spf:x-received :mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:x-spam-score:x-spam_score:x-spam_score_int:x-spam_bar :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=N9MS/eQ+JAtTuz9jMHtFBMXpEeINGagKSfl37/Kida0=; b=t3AOypORZULv5YN7MtX0p1TRfNSsSJNam7QLg2/ck8HlJaO/4i28XzxDiA4iEM/jpK 4QSDkx+zvp3asi238Y08+xXI7cOj/W6RMLWNBHCXbH/tVlkX/kz7PgTODF1K8yt2Fz78 Cpll8atgdRBP+f7I0WOWuRRHOr1PuRaPrHWEsOvNX6+5DGK5rQyJUFATrKZbGVBxDOgL bROsy18GP6s0CQuMAS8g8TOg6Cq6Llfp7ixVBKvxCC3NAB6lNP2iOe5DXF+M0zPQHVru PS6BQmRTRqsV/2npCV4c1W0WiVyWknRNbqjo5cZq30siyax6/NCMzyoJLBu03z8Pe0jh /d6A== X-Received: by 10.50.39.102 with SMTP id o6mr1503366igk.7.1367255725286; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 10:15:25 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.140.42 with SMTP id rd10ls2103377igb.41.gmail; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 10:15:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.66.26.226 with SMTP id o2mr4723587pag.1.1367255724248; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 10:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stodi.digitalkingdom.org (mail.digitalkingdom.org. [173.13.139.236]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gk5si399091pbc.0.2013.04.29.10.15.24 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 29 Apr 2013 10:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 173.13.139.236 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com) client-ip=173.13.139.236; Received: from nobody by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UWrfe-0001us-84 for lojban@googlegroups.com; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 10:15:22 -0700 Received: from mail-vc0-f178.google.com ([209.85.220.178]:48885) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UWrfS-0001uK-7R for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 10:15:21 -0700 Received: by mail-vc0-f178.google.com with SMTP id ha11so2003571vcb.23 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 10:15:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.58.120.14 with SMTP id ky14mr5093721veb.16.1367255703588; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 10:15:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.118.79 with HTTP; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 10:14:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <71a0be7f-85af-4b53-8212-8e2de124cf9c@googlegroups.com> References: <20130429163424.GP10220@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <71a0be7f-85af-4b53-8212-8e2de124cf9c@googlegroups.com> From: ".arpis." Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 13:14:43 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Baby Words: "you're right" and orders. To: Lojban Cc: lojban-list@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Spam_score: 1.6 X-Spam_score_int: 16 X-Spam_bar: + X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 173.13.139.236 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com) smtp.mail=rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0111d47687cb2104db8306f3 X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --089e0111d47687cb2104db8306f3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Reading the BPFK definition of {e'i} here, I feel like {.e'i do na broda} would translate to "You must not do {broda}", while {e'i ko na broda} would translate to "Don't {broda}". If this understanding is right, then there's no problem expressing what gleki wants, and selpa'i is subtly wrong. If I'm wrong, could someone point me to an explanation of why? On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 12:49 PM, la gleki wrote: > > > On Monday, April 29, 2013 8:34:24 PM UTC+4, Robin Powell wrote: >> >> >> 1. How would you mark a {ko} that's an order? I use {e'o} for >> requests. For "You must do this!" I've been using {ga'i}, but it's >> a tad unsatisfying. >> > > Now I wonder how to say "You have to do this" if {e'i} is taken. > It's time to update jbovlaste definitions because they are being > translated to other languages and these wrong definitions are being > multiplied. > > >> 2. How would you say "that's right!" or "you're right!", i.e. when >> the kid brings me the object I've asked for? I use {i'e} for lots >> of situations like that, but that doesn't convey correctness >> particularily. Is {drani} OK here? I'm not clear on what can do in >> the x1. >> >> -Robin >> >> -- >> http://intelligence.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. >> .i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i danfu lu na go'i li'u .e >> lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e >> lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakni >> li'u >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- mu'o mi'e .arpis. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --089e0111d47687cb2104db8306f3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Reading the BPFK definition of {e'i} here, I fee= l like {.e'i do na broda} would translate to "You must not do {bro= da}", while {e'i ko na broda} would translate to "Don't {= broda}". If this understanding is right, then there's no problem e= xpressing what gleki wants, and selpa'i is subtly wrong. If I'm wro= ng, could someone point me to an explanation of why?


On Mon,= Apr 29, 2013 at 12:49 PM, la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:


On Monday, April 2= 9, 2013 8:34:24 PM UTC+4, Robin Powell wrote:

1. =A0How would you mark a {ko} that's an order? =A0I use {e'o}= for
requests. =A0For "You must do this!" I've been using {ga&= #39;i}, but it's
a tad unsatisfying.

Now I wonder how to say "Yo= u have to do this" if {e'i} is taken.
It's time to u= pdate jbovlaste definitions because they are being translated to other lang= uages and these wrong definitions are being multiplied.


2. =A0How would you say "that's right!" or "you'= re right!", i.e. when
the kid brings me the object I've asked for? =A0I use {i'e} for= lots
of situations like that, but that doesn't convey correctness
particularily. =A0Is {drani} OK here? =A0I'm not clear on what can = do in
the x1.

-Robin

--=20
http://intellige= nce.org/ : =A0Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
.i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i danfu lu na go'i li= 9;u .e
lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u= .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e
lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo= mamta be do cu sofybakni li'u

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
=A0
=A0



--
mu'o mi= 'e .arpis.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 
--089e0111d47687cb2104db8306f3--