Received: from localhost ([::1]:52169 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1YDFx3-0005PT-T0; Mon, 19 Jan 2015 09:17:22 -0800 Received: from mail-wg0-f50.google.com ([74.125.82.50]:38488) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1YDFx0-0005PM-Te for llg-members@lojban.org; Mon, 19 Jan 2015 09:17:20 -0800 Received: by mail-wg0-f50.google.com with SMTP id b13so4454664wgh.9 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2015 09:17:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=QOQ/IaMHd3g12mj297c8AmO6ZHBVffOsQCq7UtoY49U=; b=iuqI3PyTB+6+2vSXqXfJHzzCRaC01qlJSw7CjZV/aqpwChWFSqx8INKzMKx/8Utgxl 8kCiwA0ldZHRVVIYysMR0Bt3ZX94NBHHAGXwAtZh/C2+aH8yEyc8I6jGYbDbWwRHDWff HB+G1EkZ6GqssQkuarl2NerPpYprAVj6FUXzs8JA+6egCIl0D4XhJBmO79F9KDeXOSIi puEzQk4N8XoTfpqfBntU58X1LjDAwSucBgsPyM/pDKSyW/POAw5fj8ape06RZ2quLqEi +fv5d/5oONAqApONpeD5pDh/KjWtnAMqucdNHJiy6oXqEfz/2ozWWNsC9KD5HMiPrSFq P+Qg== X-Received: by 10.180.207.10 with SMTP id ls10mr37443425wic.7.1421687832030; Mon, 19 Jan 2015 09:17:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.86.200 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jan 2015 09:16:51 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20150119170315.GA27888@mercury.ccil.org> References: <0CD5A578A47549238B8B046A01B8846C@gmail.com> <54BCF147.1080803@lojban.org> <54BCFC70.2010805@selpahi.de> <20150119170315.GA27888@mercury.ccil.org> From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 20:16:51 +0300 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.7 X-Spam_score_int: 7 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Probably one needs to add NSM - Natural Semantic Metalanguage as another language to jbovlaste and define everything through those 60 prims (or how many there are these days). However, NSM seems (as its name suggests) to completely ignore syntax and analogs of GOhA. I don't knoww, may be "this" is metaphorically extended to {dei} in all known human languages? [...] Content analysis details: (0.7 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: lojban.org] 2.7 DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL RBL: Envelope sender listed in dnsbl.ahbl.org [listed in gmail.com.rhsbl.ahbl.org. IN] [A] -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3 RBL: Good reputation (+3) [74.125.82.50 listed in wl.mailspike.net] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (gleki.is.my.name[at]gmail.com) 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders Subject: Re: [Llg-members] nu ningau so'u se jbovlaste / updating a few jbovlaste entries X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2225410543901549147==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============2225410543901549147== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3f51a35b22f050d047eb5 --001a11c3f51a35b22f050d047eb5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Probably one needs to add NSM - Natural Semantic Metalanguage as another language to jbovlaste and define everything through those 60 prims (or how many there are these days). However, NSM seems (as its name suggests) to completely ignore syntax and analogs of GOhA. I don't knoww, may be "this" is metaphorically extended to {dei} in all known human languages? At least it's worth trying to translate at least some Weirzbicka's definitions. Her books can be found here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d0p5khpsmvlrhcb/AADu7A-6EtaESI7OkJNKI4msa?dl=0 2015-01-19 20:03 GMT+03:00 John Cowan : > guskant scripsit: > > > A language consists of only sequences of symbols regulated by > > a grammar, but the universe expressed by a language depends on > > definitions of words. As long as the words of a language are defined > > by another language, the universe is restricted to that can be > > expressed by the language used for the definitions. > > While I support the idea of Lojban definitions, there is no evidence > that there is anything that one language can express that another cannot > (and this is not the SWH), modulo the addition of sufficient vocabulary. > > > I think the universe expressed by Lojban should be liberated from the > > other languages. > > There is nothing to liberate. > > -- > John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org > Deshil Holles eamus. Deshil Holles eamus. Deshil Holles eamus. > Send us, bright one, light one, Horhorn, quickening, and wombfruit. (3x) > Hoopsa, boyaboy, hoopsa! Hoopsa, boyaboy, hoopsa! Hoopsa, boyaboy, > hoopsa! > --Joyce, Ulysses, "Oxen of the Sun" > > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > --001a11c3f51a35b22f050d047eb5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Probably one needs to add NSM - Natural Semantic Metalangu= age as another language to jbovlaste and define everything through those 60= prims (or how many there are these days).

However, NSM = seems (as its name suggests) to completely ignore syntax and analogs of GOh= A. I don't knoww, may be "this" is metaphorically extended to= {dei} in all known human languages?

At least it&#= 39;s worth trying to translate at least some Weirzbicka's definitions.<= /div>

2015= -01-19 20:03 GMT+03:00 John Cowan <cowan@mercury.ccil.org>:
guskant scripsit:

> A language consists of only sequences of symbols regulated by
> a grammar, but the universe expressed by a language depends on
> definitions of words. As long as the words of a language are defined > by another language, the universe is restricted to that can be
> expressed by the language used for the definitions.

While I support the idea of Lojban definitions, there is no evidence=
that there is anything that one language can express that another cannot (and this is not the SWH), modulo the addition of sufficient vocabulary.
> I think the universe expressed by Lojban should be liberated from the<= br> > other languages.

There is nothing to liberate.

--
John Cowan=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 http://www.ccil.org/~cowan=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 cowan@ccil.org
Deshil Holles eamus.=C2=A0 Deshil Holles eamus.=C2=A0 Deshil Holles eamus.<= br> Send us, bright one, light one, Horhorn, quickening, and wombfruit. (3x) Hoopsa, boyaboy, hoopsa!=C2=A0 Hoopsa, boyaboy, hoopsa!=C2=A0 Hoopsa, boyab= oy, hoopsa!
=C2=A0 --Joyce, Ulysses, "Oxen of the Sun"

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