Received: from localhost ([::1]:47407 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1YaAYr-0007gW-HU; Mon, 23 Mar 2015 15:11:05 -0700 Received: from mail-ie0-f169.google.com ([209.85.223.169]:35793) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1YaAYl-0007gK-H8 for llg-members@lojban.org; Mon, 23 Mar 2015 15:11:04 -0700 Received: by ieclw3 with SMTP id lw3so47269006iec.2 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 2015 15:10:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=bZ0/cGIUlJBuz9GLcibkQcQY0b1DVvydSdkFCNUDXP8=; b=dGYkQjjlmcnpz+wVXFgnyxlxmsO3eYdjyovo4lsMSwSr3tXLzsDsr+iNl1J7XUFbee 6QezHy1lfED+nsWL3deReIuHkBH7PYjeaEPkBtWP02FWH9CxVu8ftZlQsV4j3auEyHhN IkUrCHM8cka7WjoeG/PFSpvKRS0VIwsCWOFv/I3RvV2zXQrJrKdMdVtnsb6byl3y4FVf DTHVo06ayaNXkQ8IStDS2Ufq6J8ITcSaEQrSbDsT7ZFEhZvZwJUViY0FHG/j1QO5Jqlj Kzy8/Vvt3PKDiRGiv8PsYfH2EZeHG0GDSNCqglCrupB6YvDTbg6uuSno6dfRJ1gcdVuE ROaQ== X-Received: by 10.107.131.159 with SMTP id n31mr2066320ioi.66.1427148653148; Mon, 23 Mar 2015 15:10:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.57.79 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Mar 2015 15:10:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5A14A249-2461-4CA7-8CBA-4E27840BB4F3@gmail.com> References: <54D471BB.2070605@lojban.org> <54D66BA8.5040607@lojban.org> <08041A2E-FC72-4E80-AAB4-468A1A3C4DB4@gmail.com> <54DA533B.2090803@lojban.org> <5A14A249-2461-4CA7-8CBA-4E27840BB4F3@gmail.com> From: DerSaidin Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 08:10:32 +1000 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Motion: BPFK Reauthorization (amendment) X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1729723393687563476==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============1729723393687563476== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113ebf6c8342b00511fbf027 --001a113ebf6c8342b00511fbf027 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry I'm late on this thread: BPFK is authorized to propose standards for the lojban language... Standard documents may be reported to an Annual Meeting or Special Meeting of the membership for ratification by a two-thirds majority of the general membership. 1) To clarify, "the general membership" refers to the members of the LLG, not the members of the BPFK? The meetings mentioned are meetings of the LLG? 2) If the BPFK's work must be accepted by the LLG, will the LLG now issue any statements/guidance on what changes it would accept and what changes it would not accept? This would help avoid the possibility of the BPFK doing some work, the LLG rejecting it, and the BPFK loosing enthusiasm and momentum. On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:01 PM, Riley Martinez-Lynch wrote: > lojbab: > > Since BPFK does exist, and is being renewed rather than newly created, it > has a set of members, even if it isn't entirely clear who is in the set. > > > selpahi: > > For this I would like to suggest that upon formation of the new BPFK, all > previous/current members are removed, so the BPFK starts with an empty se= t > of members. Then, everyone who is interested in becoming a member can spe= ak > up and will be able to become a member (with or without having to meet > certain criteria, depending on what we are going to decide). This has the > advantage of knowing who is actually a member, which might come in handy = if > there are going to be votes, for instance. > > > lojbab: > > The only reasons I see to have some more rules on who is a member are > ... the immense and more or less exclusive power that is being granted to > BPFK to propose/produce language standards > > > I agree that there is a sense that BPFK may have members, but that the > extent of membership is unclear. I also agree this is problematic from a > procedural perspective, as selpahi describes, and because of the powers > delegated to BPFK, as described by lojbab. > > To address these concerns, as well as to resolve any doubt about the powe= r > of the chair to appoint members and/or determine procedures for membershi= p > in the committee, I propose the following amendment: > > -- > > The chair is authorized to appoint members of BPFK who may or may not als= o be members of LLG, to establish expectations for the participation of mem= bers in committee work, to remove members who are unable or fail to meet th= e expectations for participation, and to determine regular procedures by wh= ich parties may be added or removed as members of the committee. > > At the time of the adoption of this policy, and at any time that a chair = is elected by the membership of LLG without having been nominated to that e= lection by BPFK, any membership in BPFK will be deemed to lapse and any mem= bership-related procedure established within the committee will be deemed t= o expire. The appointment of an interim chair will not be held to cause any= membership in BPFK to lapse, or to have any effect upon BPFK membership pr= ocedures. > > -- > > I have attached the text of the motion as it would be amended below. > > I'd like to respond to some of the other issues raised, but will do so in > a separate message. > > Thanks, > > --Riley > > ---- > > Motion: BPFK REAUTHORIZATION (as amended) > > LLG hereby recommissions BPFK (a.k.a. "banpla fuzykamni", "baupla fuzykam= ni", "byfy") as a standing committee with the charge of improving and maint= aining formal descriptions of Lojban, elaborating undocumented and under-do= cumented language features, resolving inconsistencies and errors in existin= g documentation, and responding to issues that arise in usage. > > BPFK is expressly empowered to determine its own decision-making process = and pursue its own agenda within the scope of its charge as specified in th= is charter. > > BPFK is authorized to propose standards for the lojban language which may= include, but are not limited to, lists of words, definitions in various la= nguages, human or mechanical specifications of the grammar, and instruction= al or reference texts. BPFK may develop standards documents or recognize do= cuments which have been developed by other bodies or individuals. > > Standard documents may be reported to an Annual Meeting or Special Meetin= g of the membership for ratification by a two-thirds majority of the genera= l membership. Once ratified, these may be described as "official standards"= of LLG. When an Annual Meeting or Special Meeting of the membership is not= in session, BPFK may seek Board approval of standards, which upon such app= roval, may be described as "interim standards". > > Upon adoption of this policy, the Annual Meeting of LLG membership will h= old an election for the office of chair of BPFK. Henceforth, BPFK may, in i= ts annual report to the membership, nominate a candidate to serve a subsequ= ent term as chair. If such a candidate is reported, LLG membership will hol= d a vote of confidence requiring a simple majority to confirm the nominatio= n. If no candidate is nominated by BPFK, or if the nominated candidate is n= ot confirmed by the membership, an open election will be held by LLG member= ship. At no time will membership in LLG or BPFK be considered a requirement= for the position of chair of BPFK. > > The natural term of the office of chair of BPFK will begin at the time of= the confirmation or election at the Annual Meeting and extend to the confi= rmation or election of a chair at the subsequent Annual Meeting, or to the = adjournment of that meeting if no chair is elected or confirmed. Should the= chair become vacant for any reason while an Annual Meeting or Special Meet= ing of the membership is not in session, the Board may ask the committee to= nominate an interim chair to serve the balance of the term. Should the com= mittee fail to forward a nominee, or should more than one nominee be forwar= ded, the Board reserves the discretion to appoint an interim chair. > > In the case that the Annual Meeting of LLG membership fails to confirm or= elect a chair, the committee will be considered suspended until such a tim= e as an interim chair is appointed by the Board, or until the election of a= new chair at a subsequent Annual Meeting or Special Meeting of the members= hip. > > The chair is authorized to appoint members of BPFK who may or may not als= o be members of LLG, to establish expectations for the participation of mem= bers in committee work, to remove members who are unable or fail to meet th= e expectations for participation, and to determine regular procedures by wh= ich parties may be added or removed as members of the committee. > > At the time of the adoption of this policy, and at any time that a chair = is elected by the membership of LLG without having been nominated to that e= lection by BPFK, any membership in BPFK will be deemed to lapse and any mem= bership-related procedure established within the committee will be deemed t= o expire. The appointment of an interim chair will not be held to cause any= membership in BPFK to lapse, or to have any effect upon BPFK membership pr= ocedures. > > In the case that policies specified in this document are found to contrad= ict policies previously established by LLG or its Board of Directors, the p= olicies in this document should be held to supplant the previous policies. > > > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > > --001a113ebf6c8342b00511fbf027 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 
Sorry I'm late on this thread:

BPFK is au=
thorized to propose standards for the lojban language...

Standard documents may be reported to an Annual Meeting or Special Meeting =
of the membership for ratification by a two-thirds majority of the general =
membership.

1) To clarify, "the general membersh=
ip" refers to the members of the LLG, not the members of the BPFK? The=
 meetings mentioned are meetings of the LLG?

2) If the BPF=
K's work must be accepted by the LLG, will the LLG now issue any statem=
ents/guidance on what changes it would accept and what changes it would not=
 accept?
This would help avoid the possibility of the BPFK doing some=
 work, the LLG rejecting it, and the BPFK loosing enthusiasm and momentum.<=
/font>

On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:01 PM, Riley Martinez-Lynch &= lt;shunpiker@gmail= .com> wrote:
lojbab:

Since BPFK does exist, and is being renewed rather th= an newly created, it has a set of members, even if it isn't entirely cl= ear who is in the set.

selpahi:
For this I would like to suggest that upo= n formation of the new BPFK, all previous/current members are removed, so t= he BPFK starts with an empty set of members. Then, everyone who is interest= ed in becoming a member can speak up and will be able to become a member (w= ith or without having to meet certain criteria, depending on what we are go= ing to decide). This has the advantage of knowing who is actually a member,= which might come in handy if there are going to be votes, for instance.

lojbab:

The only reasons I see to have some more rules= on who is a member are ...=C2=A0the immense and more or less exclusive pow= er that is being granted to BPFK to propose/produce language standards

I agree that there is a sense that BPFK m= ay have members, but that the extent of membership is unclear. I also agree= this is problematic from a procedural perspective, as selpahi describes, a= nd because of the powers delegated to BPFK, as described by lojbab.

To address these concerns, as well as to resolve any doub= t about the power of the chair to appoint members and/or determine procedur= es for membership in the committee,=C2=A0I propose the following amendment:=

--
The chair is authorized to appoint members=C2=A0of BPFK=
 who may or may not also be members of LLG, to establish expectations for t=
he participation of members in committee work, to remove members who are un=
able or fail to meet the expectations for participation, and to determine r=
egular procedures by which parties may be added or removed as members of th=
e committee.
At the time of the ad=
option of this policy, and at any time that a chair=C2=A0is elected by the =
membership of LLG without having been nominated to that election by BPFK, a=
ny membership in BPFK will be deemed to lapse and any membership-related pr=
ocedure established within the committee will be deemed to expire. The appo=
intment of an interim chair will not be held to cause any membership in BPF=
K to lapse, or to have any effect upon BPFK membership procedures.
--

I have attached= the text of the motion as it would be amended below.

<= div>I'd like to respond to some of the other issues raised, but will do= so in a separate message.

Thanks,

<= /div>
--Riley

----

Motion: BPFK REAUTHORIZATION (as amended)
LLG hereby recommissions BPFK (a.k.a. "banpla fuzyk=
amni", "baupla fuzykamni", "byfy") as a standing c=
ommittee with the charge of improving and maintaining formal descriptions o=
f Lojban, elaborating undocumented and under-documented language features, =
resolving inconsistencies and errors in existing documentation, and respond=
ing to issues that arise in usage.
BPFK is expressly empowered to determine its own decision-making process a=
nd pursue its own agenda within the scope of its charge as specified in thi=
s charter.

BPFK is authorized to propose standards for the lojban language which may i=
nclude, but are not limited to, lists of words, definitions in various lang=
uages, human or mechanical specifications of the grammar, and instructional=
 or reference texts. BPFK may develop standards documents or recognize docu=
ments which have been developed by other bodies or individuals.

Standard documents may be reported to an Annual Meeting or Special Meeting =
of the membership for ratification by a two-thirds majority of the general =
membership. Once ratified, these may be described as "official standar=
ds" of LLG. When an Annual Meeting or Special Meeting of the membershi=
p is not in session, BPFK may seek Board approval of standards, which upon =
such approval, may be described as "interim standards".

Upon adoption of this policy, the Annual Meeting of LLG membership will hol=
d an election for the office of chair of BPFK. Henceforth, BPFK may, in its=
 annual report to the membership, nominate a candidate to serve a subsequen=
t term as chair. If such a candidate is reported, LLG membership will hold =
a vote of confidence requiring a simple majority to confirm the nomination.=
 If no candidate is nominated by BPFK, or if the nominated candidate is not=
 confirmed by the membership, an open election will be held by LLG membersh=
ip. At no time will membership in LLG or BPFK be considered a requirement f=
or the position of chair of BPFK.

The natural term of the office of chair of BPFK will begin at the time of t=
he confirmation or election at the Annual Meeting and extend to the confirm=
ation or election of a chair at the subsequent Annual Meeting, or to the ad=
journment of that meeting if no chair is elected or confirmed. Should the c=
hair become vacant for any reason while an Annual Meeting or Special Meetin=
g of the membership is not in session, the Board may ask the committee to n=
ominate an interim chair to serve the balance of the term. Should the commi=
ttee fail to forward a nominee, or should more than one nominee be forwarde=
d, the Board reserves the discretion to appoint an interim chair.

In the case that the Annual Meeting of LLG membership fails to confirm or e=
lect a chair, the committee will be considered suspended until such a time =
as an interim chair is appointed by the Board, or until the election of a n=
ew chair at a subsequent Annual Meeting or Special Meeting of the membershi=
p.
The chair is authorized to appoint=
 members=C2=A0of BPFK who may or may not also be members of LLG, to establi=
sh expectations for the participation of members in committee work, to remo=
ve members who are unable or fail to meet the expectations for participatio=
n, and to determine regular procedures by which parties may be added or rem=
oved as members of the committee.
=
At the time of the adoption of this policy, and at any time that a chair=C2=
=A0is elected by the membership of LLG without having been nominated to tha=
t election by BPFK, any membership in BPFK will be deemed to lapse and any =
membership-related procedure established within the committee will be deeme=
d to expire. The appointment of an interim chair will not be held to cause =
any membership in BPFK to lapse, or to have any effect upon BPFK membership=
 procedures.
In the ca=
se that policies specified in this document are found to contradict policie=
s previously established by LLG or its Board of Directors, the policies in =
this document should be held to supplant the previous policies.
=
_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members


--001a113ebf6c8342b00511fbf027-- --===============1729723393687563476== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Llg-members mailing list Llg-members@lojban.org http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members --===============1729723393687563476==--